More Indian Army Soldiers Commit Suicide Than Die In Battle?
December 14, 2006 (94 Responses)
A RECENT ARTICLE over at the BBC News website is claiming that the Indian army is loosing more soldiers to suicide than to enemy action. The statistics for this year alone are a bit weird. According to the article, over 72 soldiers have lost their lives in combat this year, but approximately 100 soldiers have committed suicide. So – what’s going on then?
It seems the key issue is leave, or rather the lack of it. Most experts attribute the growing stress to low morale, bad service conditions, lack of adequate home leave, unattractive pay and a communication gap with superiors. To quote from the article: “Soldiers get angry when they are denied leave and their officers themselves take time off. It triggers a reaction, they are well armed and they take their own lives.”
This one is certainly for the “Weird” category here. Just take a look at the following key statistics:-
Since 2004, 282 soldiers have been killed in militant attacks.
Since 2004, 408 soldiers have taken their lives, killed colleagues or died after colleagues ran amok.
Of the 408 soldiers, 333 killed themselvesÂ
Maybe it’s just me, but doesn’t this seem a bit wrong to you? Well armed (and trained) soldiers who get bitchy because their leave has been cancelled decide to a) retaliate using their well honed skills, training and equipment or b) kill themselves in protest.
Yeah, exactly! I’m thinking well armed and trained soldiers going postal would be a bit more effective than a bunch of depressed guys deciding to off themselves quitely in a corner somewhere.
I hate to be a downer here…and you’ve got a really nice blog…but using these wire photos (ie AP, AFP, etc) without paying for them from those agencies, is theft. I’m a news photog and trust me, if the AP got wind of you using their images without paying for them, you’d be sued.
DK
That’s a fair point Davek.. I was in a rush and just whacked out the image but I shall be more attentive in the future. I’ve updated the image for now with a different (and non-protected) one.
Respected Sir
The main reasons are hide by the officers. Indian army soldiers are misused by indian army officer. They are not have a any dignity. They are treated as a slave. Only their welfare are in papers only. Another thing is very low pay scale it is not meet with the civil living condition. Every thing cost goes very high but comparatively the scale is very less.
They are not know their entitilement of their structure. Directly or indirectly 25% of soldiers of indian army are engaged for officers requirement fulfiling.
British ruling is closed but in army it is maintained very well.
According to the psychologists,these things only happen when someone is facing failures constantly during their ventures.
History of indian army is not good against their arch rivals pakistan which are less in numbers and having lesser war resources.
Recently the militants have become a headache for them too.So this becomes obvious,i guess.
[...] suicide statistics is certainly baffling: Since [...]
[...] More Indian Soldiers commit suicide than die in war. [...]
Low moral can also be attrributed to poor living condition. If you try and have a closer look at the kind of rations they are supplied to eat, the kind of houses they are forced to live. If they ever get to stay with their wives in peace time, the major part of the day is taken opver by duties. Its a life so harsh -even officer’s have domestic quarrels because of it. Officers and jawans go to fieldand family suffers.
I think the Indian army is suffering from committing all those attrocities that the UNHCR and other ”banned” aid agencies have been reporting for years, that the indian army personnel and paramilitary forces are committing heinous acts(Torture, Rapes, Murder, staged encounters, genocide and ethnic cleansing) in the Kashmiri state it has forcefully occuppied. The Kashmiri’s dont like them. And with the continued media lockout and suppression of news from the area by the government of india and continually ignoring the issue, its no surprise that the marauding and murderous indian soldiers are beginning to show signs and mental effects from all the acts they’ve committed.
it seems indian army officers are total
failure on this issue.
This is the reality of Indian army.
Just look how many innocent people in Kashmir they killed
since 1980. I think more than 100000. All that happened during search oprations. In their own state Gujurat indian police killed more than 4000 innocent people. I don`t feel any diffrences between Indian army & police.
CAUSES FOR SUICIDES IN THE INDIAN ARMY
I had brought forth certain salient points for the consideration of the present Defence Minister to prevent Suicides and Fratricides in the Indian Army through my blog published in sulekha.com on the 26th July,2007.
Soldiers of the present generation enrolling in the army possess greater awareness of the democracy in which we live and inherent self esteem which the army should not compromise with by employing them on menial house-hold duties, whether you call it an orderly or a
sahayak of an officer.He has his own personal prestiege and lives in a society comprising of his beloved mother,sisters and brothers and has come to the Army to earn a decent livelihood commensurate with his dignity and his personal sentiments should not be hurt.
Any redressal of grievance should be based on established legal procedures and time bound and should not be vexatious.
The present educational level, awareness and qualities of management of the officer cadre is fundamentally lacking in stature due to which, they are not able to provide the necessary leader-ship that is required on the field that is of emulation.The number of court-martials of officers indulging in embezzlement and self aggrandisemnt is so vast that it does not behove an army of the stature and magnitude as the Indian army and this contributes to building a negative morale among the forces in general.(One Gen.try to steal another’s wife, another was accused of taking money from contractors for granting the rights to supply Atta,Dhal,Eggs etc.while another Gen.escaped from custody while being escorted in a running train.) Further to-days army does not hinge on religion, caste,Izzat etc. and unless a severe over-haul of the system is under-taken by availing out-side help, there is bound to be further degradation when the rot can not be stemmed.
The Indian Army officers need to rise above themselves and take care of their soldiers! They live with their family or go on leave off and on but deny this privilege to their soldiers on the pretext of shortage of manpower and heavy duties (operational requirement). The poor sons of their mothers need to be taken care of. They were sent to the Army to protect their motherland and not to commit suicide because their officers do not take care of themselves! I request the able officers of the Army to have mercy on their men, improve their living conditions, food and let them go on leave to their families.
The structure and culture of the Indian Army is extremely stifling and oppressive- this I realized after marrying into it. An officer or an officer’s wife has simply no room for growth and self-expression and “freedom” in the true sense of the word is absolutely nil. Jawans are the greatest sufferers because they are well…at the bottom of the food chain. They are made to do stuff that any ordinary, self – respecting person would cringe at. moreover, they have supposedly no “right” to complain and protest. Paunchy colonels are dependent on them to tie shoelaces because the belly does not allow them to bend. Officers ought to be more understanding and sensitive towards a soldier’s feelings- especially when he is away from his family. As for the colonels (with a few exceptions of course)…they should learn to wipe their own a**es! Grow-up! Maybe this is not the best context to say this, but most army officers I know have the most shitty attitude towards their men and life in general.
In an interesting case that was brought to the notice of the Defence Ministry in late December last year,a Lt.Gen. who diverted Govt. funds to the tune of Rs.10 crores by fudging army transport records for constructing a Golf Course at Bhopal. His name was dragged in a court martial conducted for a Captain who was accused of selling army diesel in the civil market at Pokhran . The Lt.Gen on coming to know of his activities being exposed, during the trial of the Captain, immediately by mis-using his authority,ordered the commanding officer of the transport unit which was located 1000 miles from the place of occurrence, be also court-martialed to save his name being pulled up in the Golf Course controversy.The commanding officer, a full Colonel with 34 years of unblemished recored of service, on the verge of retirement was tried by a General Court Martial throwing all winds of legal propriety- never accused of any crime,not found fault by the court of Inquiry but the whole army establishment duly supported the Lt.General’s order and tortured the officer till he was almost dead and admitted in the Dangerously Ill ward of Military Hospital.Later he was duly cout martialed and slapped with stiff sentences though the members of the court did not find him guilty of any serious offence worth the name.This is the nature of legal administration in the army.Vested with un-controlled state power,serviced by an army of orderlies,cooks and drivers,fed by contractors conies and crooks a egoistic General can ruin a large number of families of subordinate officers and it is no wonder the Jawans who are at the end of the chain look to the almighty for redressal of their grievances and commit suicide,while the Defence Minister looks for suitable M.Ps for bolstering his party’s tottering government..
hi, this is vijay who is dreaming for Army but i wanna to say something about army …………..! Actually in BRAVE INDIAN ARMY their is some problem not so big but problem is problem……. in reality why this young soldiers comitted sucied because army officer could not understand feeling of soldiers. soliders mostly are from middle class family or poor family their is comunication gape between officers and soliders……………! could you ever think that why in sixth pay comission their is issue of ARMY why this issue is not raised before ……….actually reality is that only EX. GENERAL, J.J. SINGH raised this issue that one solider sacrifise his life only in small amount of salary and after that no one cares about his family………………………………….! So there is many such issues i could not explain in this small blog……………………but reality is that many of young and brave boys like me is ready to sacrifice his life for his country without any salary………………………..!
STUPID ARTICLE!!
U R NT AN ARMY PERSON U CN NEVR REALIZE THE STRESS ND RESPONSIBILITY THEY HOLD….ITS VRY EAZY TO SIT AT HOME IN AIR CONDITIONAR AND WRITE SUCH ARTICLES….HAV GUTTS???JOIN ARMY AND SEE THE REALITY!!!!!
HUH COMPLAINER!!
USLESS!!!
SHAME ON U ALL!!!
4-5 INCIDENTS R NT ENOUGH TO CHANGE THE REALITY HOW GREAT IS THE INDIAN ARMY….U KNW WHAT THEY DID WHEN THERE WAS EARTHQUAKE IN GUJRAT , TSUNAMI IN SOUTH INDIA…..FLOOD IN BIHAR….HAV ANY IDEA???????
NO!!!
U DNT!!!
PEOPLE LIKE JST KNW TO GIV COMMENTS!!!!..USELESS COMMENTS!!
AND ADVICE TO U FOREINGERS…
LOOK AT UR OWN COUNTRIES……
U RACIST PEOPLE JUST KNW TO TAKE A POINT AND POUNCE ON OTHERS!
Dear Friends,
The topic of discussion is about the cause of suicides in the Indian Army. Many comments that have no relevance to the subject matter are found here. Contributors may kindly not attempt to digress and reduce the seriousness of the problem faced by the brave soldiers in our forces. Instances that are glaringly affecting the morale of the fighting force because of the colonial set-up in the Armed Forces administration should be high-lighted so that India’s one million strong army gets its taste of human rights that are available to fighting forces in other democracies. Law and justice must be made transparent and equal for all those who wear the uniform and a particular segment should not be mis-used for the comfort and luxury of the governing class ! Even a secretary level IAS officer does not expect his class IV peon to polish his shoes and chaperon his children besides running errands for his cosy wife, then why is the qualified soldier competent enough and trained to safe guard the nation’s frontiers be used for such menial purposes ?
Dear SAKSHI there is no doubt in the capabilities and sacrifies done and doing by Indian Army. But the question is why these young and brave soldiers giving their life instead of battle fields? is it because of stress and egoistic behaviour of the Generals and Captains? If this is the reason then we should root out this 200 year old system. And more over I would like to point out is that Indian Army doesn’t belong to one State or Religion and caste as many people think in the same way. Though the majority of sacrifies come to certain part of the country but this is not fair to show your regional feelings towards minority or other part of the country who join to server our motherland. So my dear generals and captains wake up this is time and show some respect to your peers , sub-ordinates and the people who work at the bottom of the chain. Give up your colonial behaviour and behave like ordinary people.
Well i learn all of yours point and the point given by mr krishnan is really very good and realistic but he miss one point and the main point is our army JCO.’S just because of this rank in army the whole system is bustsued
the main duty of there are
we are jco so we dont work
we are here for giving orders
we are the wall between officers and ors
we are only in india and pak so we have to act like master of slave soiledrs and fill this slaveness in there blood
so
u all bloody asshole european motherfuckers, when u dont know the a, b , c of anything then dont poke ur bloody dick in every available hole. When US and UK fuck every part of world then it is justice and when we indian soldiers fight in our own country against militants then it is ethnic cleansing, when ur soldiers die it is natural death, when my jawan dies, it is suicide?? U fuckers u dont know a thing abt ground reality. Get ur own facts right. More then 50 british soldiers hv commited suicide in last 12 months and the lesser said abt the army having the largest average waistline in world, the mighty US army, most of them fainted in exersises in PUNE only, leave aside rajasthan and indian soldiers and offficers had to carry them back to the bases. There is no leave denial at any point in indian army. Jawans and their families r looked after in the best possible way in indian army;even army officers and their wives have to visit regularly in their accomodations as part of routines imposed by sr commanders.
listen u all bloody toms, PRICKS and harrys from so called developed european n american worlds, u motherfuckers stop inserting ur rotten dicks in every possible hole in this earth. Dont u dare comment on matters dat r not ur areas. first of all in last 12 months american army has suffered 72 suicide cases n 58 by british army. So, when u rats plunder n attack any part of world then that is justice n wen i and my soldiers do the same in my OWN country in kashmir den it is genocide. Wen ur soldier commits suicide den he is martyr n wen my soldier drowns somewhere den it is suicide. Listen u filthy assholes, indian officers are NOT promoted if they and their wives do not ensure the welfare of their men. Not participating in welfare of men attracts negative comments in annual conf reports.
And listen u motherfuckers v the indian soldiers hv full right to protect my motherland by doing what so ever in any part of my country and v dont want any permissions from any of u bastards( this includes the so called sophisticated krishnans and zakirs who dare to comment negatively against their own army).
Good going sakshi.
Jai hind.
The topic for discussion is about the conditions created in the inner administration of the Indian army wherein the personnel below officer rank are not treated with respect and dignity commensurate with the norms obtaining in the armies of other nations as the sheer deployment of these men as orderlies in the house-hold of officers for the purpose of performing menial jobs such as polishing the officer’s shoes,cooking,ironing the clothes of the memshahib and their children besides chaperoning them and running errands. Besides the constitution of India, article 22 of the Bill of rights to which India is a signatory enjoins upon every government the imperativeness of safeguarding his esteem and development of personality indispensible with human dignity besides social equality. Any duty that is not part of the manual of duties contained in the army Act and rules is clearly an infringement that violates the service rules. That more than two lakh men in an army of 1.2 million are being so exploited for personal work is a gross mis-carriage of justice to which every soldier is entittled to and the parliamentary committee on defence has rightly characterised as shameful. As much as no entrant to NDA or OTS,or IMA is told that he will have to perform house-hold work in officers’ quarters at the time of joining the force, equally performance of such menial jobs do not form part of a soldiers contract with the army,then how the latter category of personnel are being deployed for this work ?. No sensible mother will send his son to serve the army as a soldier,if she is going to be told that the job includes such work as a private servant. Once the officer gets used to being served personally by an uniformed soldier, the very perspective of officer-men relationship undergoes a radical change as master and servant which is abominable. The discretion vested with the officer in disbursal of priveleges such as grant of leave,recommendation for promotion,and many other restricted benefits also gets tainted because of the selfish interests involved.Such an exigency does not prevail in any other army of a democratic nation.
All those who have commented here, have done so with a sense of responsibility,with restraint, and well educated, as not to become emotional as to deploy expetives to elucidate their contention.What one expects from the army is to treat the soldiers with equal dignity and take care of their family needs that are physical,economic,psychological and social so as to remove the causes of suicide by frustration or ill-treatment.
Mr.Rahul has run out of logic and reason probably for the same reasons that had got him accustomed to such perpetartion of illegal acts the deprival of which has caused him to expose the material of which he is a constituent.We can not match his vocabulary ! If he only steps out of the army and say the same thing in civil street, he will know the consequences !
indian army soldiers are world best army.indian govt. didnt understand the value of one soldiers.each citizen of india should understand the army and to give them respect in socitiy. jai jawan jai kisan. jai hind.
hi,
Everybody is concerned about the suicides in the army, try to find out the reasons…just blamind officers will not serve any purpose. In any given army unit, the posted strength of officers is not more than 40% to 50%, where as there is not shortage of JCO’s or Jawans. Every officer is holding atleast 2 or 3 appointments. Jawans are off for lunch at 1230pm but officers leave their office around 3pm or may be later. Jawans are free after games from 6 pm (less those on duties) but officers ‘ve to go to office and sort out issues and usually ‘ve to sit till 9 pm and may be more. Jawans get a total of 90 days leave with additional journey period where as officers are authorised only 80 days leave in a year.
The important factor one is forgetting is the role of JCOs….about whom less said the better.
Now the issue of denial of leave……in army it is a known fact that leave is a privilage and not right…..if someone is denying leave then there are reasons are behind it….an officer has to thing the available manpower and the duties to be performed. And let me tell u the officers leave is more difficult with just 50 % officers posted and all the duties to be performed and incompetent JCOs officers never get leave when they need it and full 80 days leave in a year i’m yet to come accross an officer who might ‘ve availed.
The stress level in the army has increased manyfold and the jawans need to be treated humanely….when there are no officers to take care of them….how can u blame officers (perhaps the non-existing ones). As for sahayak, come on yaar u can’t employ a local kashmiri living on the line of control as ur servant to light your damn stove at 4am to provide warm water in winters, prepare your uniform or polish your shoes…..yes officer can polish his shoes……but tell me does any govt class I officer polishes his own shoes? or washes his own clothes? or cooks his own food? now don’t tell me that an officer should also go to cook house and cut vegetables, cook food and clean toilets and dig latrines in field, clean vehicles, remove snow from roof top and bunkers…..
If you think he should then there’s no difference between a leader and a follower….the root cause of all the problems being faced by the army is the shortange of officers and the govt is doing nothing about it…..the perks and privilages both during and after service are not matching the best in the industry then how can u expect the best of the talent to come to the army only to be killed or maimed in your own country…….
some one commented that the officers and leadership failed……have u ever counted how many officers die in operations?? of course more men die…..but then calculate the strength of officers and men…..in kargil one officer died for every 10 men (i.e. 52 officers and 528 men died) where as in any infantry bn the ratio is 1:40 overall and in a company it is 1:60……so tell me where has the leadership failed …… at the political level or the military lever or the officer level…..in an army where the educational qualification for a jawan required in some regiments is still 8 pass……tell me where would u employ a 8 pass guy ?? nowhere…..not even as servant….!!
Please think before writing senseless comments……u people seem to be having lot of time….
Hi, This is comment on Mr. Deepu’s comments. Deepu has great concerns about an officer. The GRAVE concerns of rest about an ordinary soldier, a layman and God’s cursed human creature. A jawan in army is a pet of an officer. Not only to him but to his wife and children. His children will call him as BHAIYA, which is not at all good word to hear among the other rank soldiers. Mr. Deepus’ comments confirm that the shortage of officers’ strength in army leads such a prestige chaos of normal jawan, so called unsung hero. It seems ridiculous to note that in Army the Memsahibs run a parallel government with the jawans. Jawan is just a Guinea pig. Mr Krishnan Bala in his comments, reveals a complete gentleman ship in his personality.
Dear Thomas,
Thank you for your complimentary reference. Mr.Deepu is un-necessarily obfuscating the issue by bringing in extraneous matters like shortage of officers and multiple appointments they hold. For all these duties he is ably assisted by an army of JCOs,NCOs and the Jawans below who run around and accomplish the job with accurate precision till finally the bottom line carries the signature of the officer who may not know even the basic intricacies behind.It is only a statutory requirement. Regarding the entittlement of casual leave there is a slight variation in the number of days casual leave can be availed but, in reality no Jawan comes to enjoy or avail more than 10 days casual leave per year as financially he is incapable of meeting the journey expenses to his home town . Every officer is entittled to live with his family on government expense whether in married quarters or re-imbursed expenses for engaging a accomodation out-side which is not the case of Jawan. In the whole of his service tenure a soldier lives with his family hardly for a period of 7 to 10 years out of a 20 year engagement.
Mr.Deepu also rues that : “As for sahayak, come on yaar u can’t employ a local kashmiri living on the line of control as ur servant to light your damn stove at 4am to provide warm water in winters, prepare your uniform or polish your shoes…..yes officer can polish his shoes……but tell me does any govt class I officer polishes his own shoes? or washes his own clothes? or cooks his own food? now don’t tell me that an officer should also go to cook house and cut vegetables, cook food and clean toilets and dig latrines in field, clean vehicles, remove snow from roof top and bunkers…..”
So what is the solution ? Expect the Jawan to do all these jobs for him and his family. An officer is trained to look after himself and not rely on the services of a uniformed combatant to do his personal work. I have personally seen a G.M. in a nationalised bank asking his sub-staff to go and fetch a pack of cigarettes and the peon tell him on his face gently, Sir,call me if any bank work is to be done but pardon me for not doing any personal job. A class one officer in civil employs many servants to do his work and they get paid out of the officers’ pocket. An army officer is paid extra allowances which are substantial part of his pay when posted to forward areas and he can keep one servant along with him from his home own. Why force the jawan to clean your toilet, for after all he has also taken oath to safe guard the honour of the country at the cost of his life when being attested before induction and dons the uniform with pride and entered the service for the glory attached to that olive green !
Any way there is no point in talking to the perpetrator of cruelty.They are accustomed to free subservient, slavish service and the snobbery attached with type of life. The parliamentary committee on defence has already expressed their utter shock on this shameful treatment and some thing will change for the better, in days to come. In no other democratic country this system prevails in armed forces !
Krishnan Bala , Illinois. U.S.A.
I think the issue being discussed here is the problem of suicides in the army and it seems to ‘ve diverted towards the sahayaks…. I’ve got no issues in discussessing it either….now would anyone answer me how many (or if any) sahayak has committed suicide ?? and in today’s scenario where there are only 10 officers in a unit….how many ‘d be employed as sahayaks? not more than 10 or may be 11 !!
Mr. Krishnan Bala says, “For all these duties he is ably assisted by an army of JCOs,NCOs and the Jawans below who run around and accomplish the job with accurate precision till finally the bottom line carries the signature of the officer who may not know even the basic intricacies behind. It is only a statutory requirement.”
…….. I don’t know if u’ve any understanding of the functioning of the army…..but let me tell u, none of the JCO’s, NCO’s and the Jawans (including clerks) can even draft a correct letter of 2-3 lines without grammatical or spelling mistakes……so the officer doesn’t merely signs it…..it drafts it, checks it (of course it’s typed by the clerk) gets the corrections done (sometimes several times) and then only signs it…..even a head clerk can’t draft a letter properly and even the CO has to check and recheck even the spelling mistakes in a draft which ‘ve been initialled by the Heak Clerk for its correctness.
Mr Bala says, “Every officer is entittled to live with his family on government expense whether in married quarters or re-imbursed expenses for engaging a accomodation out-side which is not the case of Jawan…… let me correct you Mr. Bala, there’s something known as CILQ (Compensation/Cash in lieu of Quarter), which is admissible only to JCO’s and Jawan’s as part of the salary if he doesn’t get / take a quarter…..but an officer has to claim HRA which takes several months…. and if i’m not wrong even officers stay away from their families in field except few who are permitted to bring them for a couple of months….but most don’t bring them due to children education or othe personal reasons….
Mr Bala, working as a GM in a bank and as an officer in army are two different things…..he peon is recruited for a specific purpose but a soldier is known as Soldier General Duties…..he has to maintain the arms and equipment, vast training area often running into acres, firing ranges, and the overall area of the cantonment…..now please don’t ask the officers to employ servants to maintain all these areas……similarly in field a jawan is has to maintain the bunkers, trenches, posts, routes, lines etc…..no doubt officers are also trained and capable of these things……….if u want officers to do all these things…..then who ‘ll do the officers job? the servants employed by the officers?? I didn’t know that you can take a servant from your hometown to field area with you……!!
strangely enough u’ve commented on each para of mine but refrained for the one about the casualities of officers and leadership….
as for leave a jawan now is adequately paid to travel by train on 50% concession everytime he wishes…..secondly today a jawan gets 30 days casual leave if he desires…….how does the travelling expenses differ if a jawan is going for 10 days or 30 days……i couldn’t understand…….!!
Dear Bala,
This is with reference to your comments with gratitude. The entire nation should be grateful and proud to have persons like you who pose their concerns of pitiful Indian soldiers, who can’t even dream to voice against the draconian laws of the army. Your effort indeed deserves the hats off from hearts of millions of soldiers on behalf of whom you represent. I am in utter confusion in realizing why still Indian army does ignore the rights of majority of its strength?.
It is disheartening to read the comments of Mr. Deepu that a ” 8 pass guy ” deserves such status in army. Mr. Deepu may not be aware of the past pre and post independence of Indian Army recruitment, An “8 pass guys” ( Yester years master degree ) had got enrolled in army as OFFICERS. Moreover present survey shows that due to unemployment problem, most of the jawans are graduates and post graduates. If Mr Deepu is correct on basis of education why the graduates too is facing the same standard of treatment as the 8 pass guy is treated in army.
Often I wonder to read the snippets on army events in all national dailies. I am totally disheartened why such disparity among the co-staff. I recently met a serving soldier who hails of my native village, came on casual leave for a fortnight from Jammu Kashmir to a remote village of southern India. On conversing with him I damn confirm he is battling daily with the rules and treatments of his own army rather than neighboring rival enemies like Pakistan. Just see the army’s double standard with its own co-staff. If an ordinary jawan gets climate allowance for example 1 dollar, the army officer gets ten times of it with the hike in rank. By god’s grace climate is same to all, irrespective of Indian army ranks. Moreover low level jawans (soldiers) suffer a lot without the provision of geysers, and hot water. But for the officers, the sons of the soil, just an order is enough to use the whole strength of his slave men to convert the entire glacier into homely paradise.
Second point he said. Even in ration (food) there is a large scale disparity. If a jawan is authorized to take 250 grams of chicken it is doubled and tripled with the hike of rank structure. If raw wheat flour is authorized to a soldier, a well baked sweet bread is authorized for his boss.
Third point. Liquor quota. If a jawan is authourised to have 4 bottles of rum or whisky an Officer can enjoy an unlimited quota of liquor with the power of his ranks.
Fourth. Normal transport to soldiers on duty is denied. But for the officers there is stand by cars, and extra cars in reserve for the purpose of marketing of wives and children of the the officers.
Fifth. If an officer wants any good soldier as a domestic help against of the soldier’s wish, HE is endowed with all indirect laws supporting HIM to obey HIS ill command too. Mr. Deepu please note the point “8 pass guy” too has his own right to choose either the national service or the service of his boss for the s(h)ake of so called patriotic service.
Denial of leave is at large scale. Firstly the soldier has to polish or flatter his immediate superior for initiating the wish of his leave to be forwarded through the proper channel of the command in writing an application. sometimes his immediate superior rank Havildar (Sergent) may demand few pegs of rum in a normal gesture. Government’s authorised leave structure too has not been granted to the soldiers, who may be away from their beloved ones for many months. Sometimes many soldiers never take part in the funerals of their parents. There is a report of a soldier who is just married but to await at least one year to mate his lifemate.
If I write the plight of the serving soldiers as I heard from different serving soldiers, I need to lengthen it in great volumes. Shall we put the government responsible for all ill happenings in army? Every defence minister knows this and all presidents and prime ministers of past and present too know this. When people are there to be slaves, let us enjoy the power. From Hitler to king Aurangazeb everyone on earth enjoys this special gift of god. Why should we be exceptional? This has become the tendency. They are the killers of the conscience. Sorry to say they are born without conscience. Thanks for reading my comments.
Thomas Tamilnadu. India
What all we talk is nothing but SIDE EFFECTS of Suicide of soldiers. We are talking the vital issue only. Mr Bala Krishanan’s comments are superb. He writes unbiased and with utmost human conscience.
I shall get you a few days after Deepawali celebrations. Thanks
Dear Deepu,
Thanks for pointing out that the issue under discussion is “Causes for Suicides in the Indian Army”. Since another friend of yours hijacked the subject with some puerile vitriolicks, the subject got side-tracked but not without some connectivity so long the treatment, is one of the factors that contribute to the loss of personal esteem in a soldier. Any way since you are magnanimous enough to concede a discussion on both I shall answer your queries to the best of my knowledge.
The test of percentage Sahayaks committing suicide is not a valid standard for considering the fundamental question of their employability for menial jobs.The basic practice of employing foot soldiers as batmen began when officers of the British Army deployed the native indian sepoy to run errands for his family,massage his aching muscles after a horse ride and cook food for his wife and children after a pleasure trip to the countryside..What started as an exploitation of the native slave who was willing and looked upon the whiteman as the Lord of the Kingdom for small crumbs he doled out periodically, has over the centuries come to be claimed as a birth-right by the Indian officer who commands troops of his own ilk,blood and gene. Indian Armed Forces belong to a democratic republic and our standards of ethics must be better than what we profess when we address a parade on the need to strive hard in our endeavour to serve the country with fortitude and honour.The soldier of to-day is a well educated person not because some of them are P.Gs and Grads. but because the awareness of national and internationl events brought to his door step by the media explosion. He, like you and me craves for personal dignity besides bread and ale and would not sign up in the kindred roll, if at the time of recruitment told, that his duties involve giving a bath to the officer’s dog,chaperoning his children,tending his garden and polishing his shoes besides listening to some good “gali” from memsahib for under performance. Not only does this un-official deployment tend to decrease the morale of the soldier, it also contributes to building a different class structure not envisaged in the Constitution of India under art.19 and 21. The abrogation of rights of association under art.33 is to every uniformed member whether officer or soldier and hence outside the purview of our consideration for the currnt discussion. This social segmentation creates a mental divide as a master and servant and pervades in all arms of administration and military jurisprudence and works adversely in the performance of ones duties.This is what you have to appreciate and definitely in the joint exercises that our army is engaged in with other advanced countries, certain adverse observation could be made at the nature of our handling the troops.This type of relationship with PBORs can lead to exercise of colourable decision involving the entittlements of leave,recommendation for promotion, postings and even, day to day routine work of the soldier or taking a compassionate view of his sufferings. Some time back a soldier’s wife who expressed her inability to take part in some work assigned to her by the COs wife, as she had to attend to three of her school going children besides her husband to attend and does not enjoy the service of orderlies for washing and cooking..The Commanding Officer’s wife who is normally the head of the Army wives welfare Association had the OR thrown out of unit quarters and retrieved her prestiege !
You have referred to grant of CILQ for all PBORs as much as HRA paid to officers.Is it your contention that every married soldier gets accomodation or CILQ and not based on the roster system where only a percentage become eligible for this privelege unlike the officer ?
And lastly, I also know that you are a person of the present generation endowed with a lot of greater I.Q.and discuss without importing undue emotion on matters that impacts on your daily life.You may also by now understand that I am not a green horn either and have Generals and Admirals for good company who could not hold their post retirement civilian job even for a short while due to utter dis-orientation with reality. An Airmarshal I came across sitting on a Godrej chair and a table top without glass ,with no peon to answer his call, mailing his own letters but discharging the post of Vice President of an airways transhipping goods across continents..That is the real world of to-day !
I don’t know which army u r talking about, in which even post grads join as jawans….i’ve come accross newspaper ads which ask for 8th pass for certain castes and regions due to their backwardness, otherwise the reqirement is of 10th only(10+2 for clerks)….now, by the time one finishes grad the age of a person is 20yrs+ or more and at least 22+ if he has done PG….with the upper age limit of 19 &1/2yrs…pls educate me how can a Post Grad can join army as a jawan unless he is joining as an education havildar, who at any cost can’t be employed as a so called slave.
I don’t deny that men r employed as sahayak and the amount and the kind of work they do varies from person to person or rather officer to officer. one must understand what is the requirement of sahayak….unlike army, the air force and navy have got non combatants known as NC(E)s who are recruited for performing certain jobs which u call menial…..these men are utilized by the officers in IAF and Navy to help them in daily affairs like draw rations, veg and milk from the ration store etc….now army doesn’t ‘ve the luxary of these NC(E)s and GD soldiers do these things…..now no airman or seaman cuts grass in AF or Naval station….but a army jawan does…..
Where there’s some use of resourses there’s bound to be some misuse….it’s this misuse of trained manpower beyond certain limit that needs to be checked by the army top brass and the government and lay down a clear policy about it to the army….
you guys ‘ve not discussed anything about the army of men maintaining homes of generals…..or are u one among them?? what about the ADC to president or Governors isn’t it colonial…..where officers stand like slaves of president or governors??
by no means i’m justifying employment of trained manpower whose primary duty is to defend the nation, as a servant, a slave and in menial jobs…..but in certain things officers cant do without them…..i’m not talking about polishing shoes….it’s not that difficult….
Man, this is amazing. Mr krishnan and Mr thomas seems to have all the time in this world rather then discussing some grave problems like naxalism or recession they are adamant on blaming indian army officers for all these suicides. My dear friends why dont u recognise the fact that a person who commits suicide is a weak person and a person who can kill himself over pitily issues is not required in army and thus he has done the right thing by killing himself. As such attempt to suicide is a crime and if the person survives then he shall be tried in a court martial.
Secondly army is a disciplined organisation, so at times these soldiers are not able to handle the strict environment and they take the extreme step. You will not find too many such cases in para military forces coz the atmosphere there is much more relax. You must also consider the fact that the environment is same for officers also but there are hardly any such cases from officers coz they are mentally strong and they are selected from a very tough mental judgement exam. So officers handle the pressure ably. In most of the workshop companies only single officer is handling the workload of four officers against the full posted strength of PBORs. So it is the case of mental robustness. It is almost everytime that suicides are in army over small household issues and u believe me there is no dearth of leave for pbors as they are in there full numbers against the popular notion of ” chhutti na diye jaane se naaraj jawaan ne adhikari par blame daalte huye aatmahatya kee”. A person who can be so weak mentally can be of no use for his army and even his family. What will he do in a battle scenario? In fact such liabilities should be found out and should be kicked out of armed forces!!
yes Mr Rahul, that’s what i too want to convey….that most of the army units are functioning at less than 50% of the authorised strength….where as the PBORs are full in strength….even then the kind of work and engagements that army gets is increasing day by day, from flood relief to securing area around the flyover being inaugurated by some CM in some state….to organising polo tournaments for the civil and tourism dept, rescuing children from tube wells to locating and retrieving body of a chief minster to funeral…. the list is vast and known to all ….the tasks ‘ve increased many fold the officers are short by over 50% and an officer is required everywhere…….even for the collection of vegetables for the bloody supply point….coz even the boys don’t ‘ve faith in the honesty of JCOs….
Mr Krishnan….one need not be told what all one has to undergo or do after joinig the army….most of the men joining as PBOR are children or relatives of PBOR already serving or retired from army…..their parents might be knowing better what all they ‘ve to endure and do after joining the army….so pls don’t say that they are not aware about the sahayak …..
when a jawan returns from leave he is interviewed by his Sr JCO, Coy Cdr and even the CO to know if he has any problems at home…..no body asks an officer when he returns from leave…..are they no human beings?? can’t they too have any problem?? even in extreme emergency cases an officer is not auth AAL….. or can’t carry forward this yr AL beyoin 15 days into next yr…..why these double standards??
obviously if 10 officers are doing the work of 21 officers, that too when few of them are always on lve or courses, the quality of time spend and interaction done with PBOR goes down, because even officers have 24 hrs in a day….
analyse the no of suicides over a period of several years and corressponding decline inthe str of officers….you ‘ll definitely find a missing link….the rise is directly propotional to fall in the officer strength….
The ‘SAHAYAKS’ came into being during the britisher’s time. they were actually ‘BATMAN’ or BATTLEMAN. the concept was, as a body of troops having arrived at a location goes about settling down, setting camps, cook houses, toilet areas, local defence etcetra — the jawans setup their tents and look after their own chores and those of their compatriots who are employed in the periphery of the camp/on duties. As for the one offr who accompanies them, he has the onerous responsibility of carrying out recconaisance of the area,planning the layout – give detailed instructions to the sub groups , coordinate their locations, arrange for the security of the camp and also ensure the food and water points are functional. by the time he completes this task and returns – he will have to pitch up his own tent, heat water and cook food – then its time to move the next day!!! so the battleman is the one who accompanies him in battle – a combatant who stays beside the offr, maybe carrying the radioset also. The bond between the offr and the batman was such that the batman could advise or suggets ideas to the offr. they share awter, food even the ground sheet and fight as a team. he is the officer’s buddy. Otherwise the offrs will spend or waste part of thier time for their own welfare.
in the present day context – as against the perception that the offrs are enjoying, you find that the offr , burdened with more than 2 -3 appointments cannot look after his own house – it is a fact. Think of this’ a company commander in a peace station – comes for PT at 6 am in the morning, runs for 3 km and does PT with troops, gets 1 hr break to bathe change and return to office 5-10 minutes before the CO turns up. he has the JCOs and clerks ready with their problems/work. He does it- then attends a conference in the higher HQ, visits the hosp if anyone is admitted, surprise check to the lines, unit area, cook house, ration staore, does some tedious board proceedings – ammunition stocktaking/ration stocktaking/documents, ends up doing the unit and mess accounts himself. any personal career exams and trg exercises planning and execution- are in your ‘own’ time. this gentleman comes home at 3 and is off again at 4 for games. then office for other pending jobs. I have not talked anything about training, interviewing 120 men, planning their individual career/profile etc. Now as an officer, i have to look after my facilities – uniform preperation/ ration collection – then my job gets affetced. Moreover it is not the ordinary jawan or sahayak who washes your clothes or irons or cooks food. the army has specialised ‘DHOBI’,'SAFAIWALA’, ‘COOK’, ‘BARBER’, ‘TAILOR’ etc who do this job. the officers mess cook does the officers cooking.
the cru of the matter is not in the concept but the present day execution of the tasks – some overdo it, others do it themselves. there are very senior generals who carry their rucksack to battle and carry their bags.
the issue of increased suicides can be attributable to number of precipitating factors like:
- breakdown of the joint family system – a jawan has more domestic worries
– the increased awareness due to media – he starts comparing with the civlians and the privileges therefrom.
- mobiles and telephones brings families together – even the routine ‘cold’ that the daughter is affected with is immidiately informed by the wife staying 500 km away.
- lack of wars and insulation of army from the public – the society does not respect him, his grievances are not heard bythe local administration- as such the poor jawan can come on leave 2 – 3 times and only for a month each while his beliggerents stay there for the entire year.
- curtailment of certain civil rights menas he cannot express himself.
- rediced officer – men interaction(wrongly claimed by some as the most serious matter). By stopping shayaks and officers shifting into the lines today will not stop suicides for your kind info!!!!
- The challenegs are multifaceted and ever increasing – deployments all over. the exercises in peak summers in Rajasthan staying in tents(officers and men stay in similar canvass tents) – compare this with his brother in his village staying in a concrete house with running water and a electric fan?? an officer also will compare himself to his classmate likewise.
- Leave availing is not a problem but the distances involved are long and the duration of stay is short. (a person in srinagar and going to bangalore/kochi.madras/hyderabad/siliguri/guwahati takes nearly 4 days to reach his house !!). leave management is difficult since unit cannot send more than 1/3rd of persons out at a time- logic is bal 1/3rd are on duty while next 1/3rd are the immediate replacements undergoing rest/recuperation in a 24 hour cycle.
- There are 800 persons ina battalion of which 400 have recurring problems- the officer has to prioritise them, every one cannot be givrn leave at once – trg exercises and unit commitments hav e to be executed. Thsu avery one cannot be sent on leave at one time – mosare accomodated some will have to wait.
- the conditions in army as they were in the past and present are very distinct. things are improving and will do so in future.
- suggets means to improve the system as a whole. you cannot have democracy and strikes in the army – the very existence will be threatened. issues have to be tackled within the system – it will be Inshallah
perfectly said by Mr Deepu and Mr sandy. U hv to be in it to feel it!!! the language is enough to reveal the trg and identity…..sir, people dont know what the hell does an offr goes from in a peace stn. AWWA and all those blessings including vtc……the lesser said the better…one offr will be made the oic of every damn thing and civilians think only abt csd, bungalows, sahayaks, gypsy…..
good to see Mr sandy and Mr Rahul pointing out the correct things….one has to be in to feel it…..sitting in air conditioned offices even a fool can generate millions of ideas which might not be relevant or practical on ground in the environment and conditions in which the army has been functioning…..isn’t army and its men being treated like slaves by the politicians??
the officers in charge or the CO is blamed for every god damn thing happening around him…….
just imagine the CO being blamed for a damn accident involving a mil veh and a civ veh far away in the city or if the mil veh skids off the road and goes down the hill in field…….is CO driving the damn veh?? its sheer carelessness onthe part of the driver and the co driver(JCO) who are brief by MTO regularly and by CO in every sainik sammelan …..
if a jawan has a prob with his wife and he illtreats her and she writes to the Army Chief or the Defence minister for maintenance allce, is CO responsible for their marital discord??…..
if a jawan doesn’t return from lve and overstays leave or deserts the service, is officer or CO responsible for that??……
if a jawan takes a bank loan and defaults who is to be blamed…..the easiest is to blame CO of the unit to which that jawan belongs…..
if a jawan fingers some female in a bus, market or a theatre, than too blame the CO or his Coy Cdr as if it was his finger!!
if a jawan contacts STD, than also blame lies with CO, how ‘s CO responsible for a jawan visiting prostitutes?? during leave or outpass….even after they are instructed not to indulge in such activities….
all these things are individual traits…..similarly, suicide is individual trait….
officers undergo strict psychological tests for their ability to undergo stress before being selected by the selection boards…
there’s no such tests for the PBOR, because of which the filter and elemination of psychologically weak pers is not there during their recruitment….it’s these pers with suicidal tendencies who are not able to withstand the stress and pressure of the mil profession, they buckle, break and ultimately either kill themselves as a way to escape….
Disheartened to read that ” sitting in A/C room even a FOOL can generate millions of
ideas which might not be relevant “. I object your honour. We are all brothers meeting in a net portal with counter views from different corners of universe. Every one has got right to think and to express. But all men think they are right with their thought. But NO one has got any any right that the opposite would or have to accept his views. Please be kind enough in using harsh words. This tarnishes the personal image of Mr Krishnan Bala and me who are making irrelevant ideas with you here.
I do pitily accept bechara CO can not be responsible for all the ill doings his bekoof jawan including fingering a lady in the market. What to do? This is called moral responsibility under which most of ministers are either kicked out or ordered to consider to surrender his resignation of the post. When Delhi Metro Bridge caves in asunder, Mr Sasheedharan put in his paper claiming the whole responsibility. This is the fate of the post and the trait of the so called LEADERSHIP QUALITY, for which leaders need to be scape goat. If one jawan out of five hundred does all ills the CO must be good. If 100/500 are rogues the army should reconsider the bechara CO’s continuance in his rank and post. ( I mean bechara CO, because he is victimised and a jawan as bekoof because he is source of all ill traits of human beings)
Recently media reports came in limelight , that a gentleman who have all passed through all human P…. syco….. logy under SSB, a Captain was caught red handed when the gentleman took snaps candidly from the Cellphone when his country’s young sister at her 20s was taking bathe.
One more Captain Sahibji during temporary duty journey he made ruckus in whole compartment of the train to put on the light thru out night. To which the co passengers opposed him. The gentleman shown his gun to kill each. The entire train security guard peefed up to protect its people from the rakshak sorry bakshak (Traitor). At last the drama ended with emergency intervention from his CO, who had to move to distant railway station, It was novel experience of the CO who was never forced by the jawans. If I needed to list all the feats of the so called psychology test undergoers successfully, with your ORDER they are endless. When Angel dwells, certainly Devil too roams somewhere. So All men in uniform are of same nature irrespective of their ranks. There r more to express . I shall join later on.
Are mere thomas bhaiyya, tum to Mr Deepu ki baat ka bura maan gaye…….Chill man, kyon gussa hote ho….I dont understand some rascal europeans hv initiated this silly topic and they hv fled the scene and now they r enjoying the scene from outside seeing we indians fighting among themselves. Are mere bhai u seem to me some professional blogger/writer/thinker…U should understand that statistics are like bikinis, revealing unimportant thing but hiding the vital facts. Are yaar we r only seeing the stats but not the reason behind these suicides. These suicides r due to most trivial reasons and they hv got nothing to do with so called sahayak systems or leave denials. In fact over leave denials there have been no cases of suicides but there have been cases of officers been killed by jawans. Aur yaar jahan tak baat hai some fauji captain sahab creating some trouble in any railway compartment, do you know the exact reason behind all this? were u present at the scene? How will u define the drugging and looting of army personnels whie going on leave( generally they are specially targetted) How about some DSP sahab of police(of the same rksof a captain) threatning shopkeepers. How about press personnels threatning govt officials/businessmen and extorting money from them in lieu of not printing something bad abt them. How about TTE asking for liquor bottles from army personnel for giving them confirmed tickets….So dont talk of examples and stats. I can throw much more of them then you. Most of the persons on this board dont even know the rank structure of army. Leave aside commenting on army topics…
Dear Mr Thomas,
Thanx for giving the example of Mr Sreedharan of moral responsibility…..but he is not serving in the army…..and the army doesn’t function on moral responsibilities, there’s no such thing in the army…. army functions on absoloute responsibility…..the officer is responsibile for anything and everything that happens under his command in the area of his responsibility……
I’m sorry to say but i stand by my comment, “Sitting in airconditioned offices…….” Tell me how many of your so called morally responsible bureaucrats, ministers / politicians or businessmen have their children serving inthe army or willing to send their children into the army?? I’m sure none…..can u tell me why? you won’t be having any answer…!!
You’ve mentioned about a capt clicking some snaps and another creating some ruckus in a train…..such incidents become breaking news for our society which get blown out of proportion by the media and reaches u too….but have you ever thought how many such captains / majors die every other day fighting terrorists in kashmir and safeguarding the citizens, like you, who blame them for all the ills…. does their heroic deeds and death get media attention ?? No..!! Even if it does, it appears as a scroll in some damn news channel as a statistic (1 capt and 2 jawans die battling terrorists in kashmir) no names….no respect….or a small 4 line news in 5/6page in a newspaper…..where as a star changing his hair style or promoting his movie gets Ist page coverage……first the society and media should learn how to treat the armed forces…… army is not doesn’t form the society….. army has its roots in its society and it’s as good or bad as the society……
Mr Thomas, I want to ask you one thing, I asked it earlier too but neither you nor Mr Krishnan dare to respond on this issue…..have u ever counted how many officers die in operations?? of course more men die…..but then calculate the strength of officers and men…..in kargil war one officer died for every 10 men (i.e. 52 officers and 528 men died) where as in any infantry bn the ratio is 1:40 overall and in a company it is 1:60…… with the ongoing shortage of officers for the past 15 years this ratio now is 1:80 (including CO) and in a company it it 1:120….. where as the casuality rate is 1:10……this is because the officer lead from the front and are the first in the line of fire, they faced enemy and bore the bullets first……so tell me where has the leadership failed ……
Are you or Mr Krishnan willing to send your children in to the army ?? the choice is left to you whether to join as Jawan (the slave or pitiful soldier in your words) or the officer (the Bhakshak as said by you)…..i’m sure it’s going to be a big NO…..!! Tell me how many of your close relatives or friends are serving in the army?? I think atleast none as officers….that’s why you are able to visualise only one side of the picture…..!!
Strange !! no comments from Mr Krishnan or Mr Thomas……
Mr. Deepu,
For the past one week, I was unable to open Avolon5.com, as it is blocked or hacked for further comments. Although there is a warning from the site in facing my computer is at risk, I am replying to you. I can not hold myself abstaining comments /re comments. First of all I should thank you for reminding me in this portal as no one thinks of me. I love my countrymen in uniform, let them be an officer or a Jawan, No matter the rank is. When we jumped into the war of words / views, the CONCERN regarding the hapless jawan has become the issue, the bone of contention among us.
Let me come to your points.
Referring to Sridharan’ s moral responsibility. How far his moral responsibility is much different with the so called ABSOLUTE responsibility.? If the officer is responsible for anything and everything under his command in the area of responsibility, then why he is not accepting his inability in his leadership, as Sridharan does.?
Secondly, You asked how many politicians and bureaucrats sitting in the A/C room wish to send their sons to uniform service? First of all please do not put army service is ONLY the prime service of the nation. Putting uniform wielding a gun and killing innocent lives is not at all considered to be a patriotic service of today’s generation. Don’t you accept a scientist a non soldier service in Defence Research Wings, doing better job than a soldier? A self less social worker’s duty to the nation is far better than the soldier, who can kill the lives as per the directions of their political leaders in the name of the defence.
More over this has been tradition and fate of our democratic nation that sons and daughters of the progeny will lead their parental profession. An actor’s son will certainly be MADE into an actor even if he lacks the acting skills. Like there is no strange in becoming a son of an officer to become an officer.But he will become only an officer not a JAWAN, although the post of both concerns with patriotic service only. An officer’s son on his willingness to serve for the nation joins as JAWAN, then it would be great sacrifice. Here as an officer, power, clout, dominance of post, promotion, pay and perks are also vital ingredients in the so called patriotism. Please prove your officers, the sons of the soil to serve for the nation without DA and forego all innumerable allowances for the sake of their hungry /downtrodden citizens hanging poverty line. There are queues of skilled persons for their pursuit of excellence in finding element of patriotism from rural sides too. But are they encouraged?. They become victims of bribery, corruption, nepotism and favoritism. If a General wants his son to become officer Will there be any damn hurdle even from the SSB? Note, all the officers won’t send their sons to the military service. If he or she is capable to fight in the CIVIL in all difficult realms he will go abroad or do any odd jobs, which are also national service in different aspects. If he or she is not fit enough in competing civil , the vast battle ground for all the skilled persons, then he or she chooses the army service using the past experience of his fore fathers and holy mothers and killing the right choice of becoming a valient officer from the beeline of father less competent job seeker from the rural area.
More over you asked me whether I could send my child? Can you cane a child at her or his twenties to choose this or that? Will the Non violent Mahatma Gandhi, the messenger of peace force, send his son to army, for leading a patriotic life on violent norms ? Of course, he won’t send. For that reason not sending his son to the army, Will you and me hesitate to call him as Father of the nation? So yey sab jeevan ka dhristicon hain bhai sahibji. An angle of life. If you choose, be proud of it. But do not expect others to. If the army service is considered a prime one in the present era, military men won’t be standing last in the marriage market in almost all the states. So all the citizens are thinking bechara fauji. As a father of a daughter one hardly selects a soldier as his son-in-law, because the next day of her marriage, the soldier will leave for ever. Nothing guarantees of his next possible arrival who would be absent in all odd events.
Mr. Deepu you said, the ills of the officers are blown out of proportion and their deeds are not respected either by media or public. When Kargil war was on, when the holy bodies of our martyrs arrive in almost all the states, the primary duty of the district collector and all political vips is to pay them last respects. Pages were running in all dailies about their deeds. people throng to see their heroes faces. When Bombay Taj was under terrorist attack, the commando’s role were greatly appreciated. please do not forget those. If you do ruckus then also you won’t be spared by the people, because they are no longer mere spectators of everything in the name of army service.
You asked for dare response from Mr Krishnan and me for the Kargil war casualty of the officers. You explained us all the details with ratio of war casualty of officers and jawans. To little extent I may consent to. But to great extent of the casualty, there is hidden but commonly accepted and known revelation is there in the war casualties.All the defence ministers have accepted this . It may be stunning. When there is an internal fire among the troops for the sake of revenge even during the non war time between the ranks and files, why can’t we expect the greater casualty in war time where no probe and investigation is possible at any cost? In media, Like suicides of jawan, the other familiar counter news is Killing of officer. This you can not deny for the sake of Truth. The major ratio of the officers martyrdom in the war is the result of collateral casualty. We require to revamp the unit, the defence sector int the psychological way. Let there be no officer killing and jawans suicide, then I shall be proud of your SERVICE and its very purpose of defence.
Eager to speak with you further.
Rahul Bhaiya ji,
Namaskar,.
For few days I was out, for computer hack. I think we are all speaking all the ills that even NET does not digest. As u aptly said all the stats are just bikinis only. the correct reasons for the ills are inexplicable and you even accepted the killing of officers by the jawans. I do not co relate the suicides of the jawans in one side and killing of officers in other side but all in army??????? Is there any VAASTA between two issues.? Suicides show me weak and oppressed psychological side of army. Killing of officer shows the strong and unquestioning authoritarian section of the army. The casualty is army’s. Let us wait for the dawn when my country’s army wont’t face such evils in future. Bhaiya, you have asked me whether I personally witnessed a fauji captain made ruckus in the train? Isn’t that baseless to ask? To believe anything in the print, if one needs to be present on the spot, then no news paper is worth enough. Unless there is personal revenge with the captain, no National daily like Times of India will publish this weird news. please mind there won’t be any fire without smoke. Here the HERO, the captain, shares major chunk of the the reality.Further, You blame those who speak about army without knowing the ranks of army. Will u please be tested for the knowledge of equal ranks Captain in counter forces like Navy and Air force.? If you know one rank certainly not all the equivalent ranks as per current memory. you Bhaiyaji may be knowing. To comment here RANK is nothing to be taken care of. Bhaiya,,,,,,, Bye…
Eager to know your comments further….
While I am reading all the comments including Mr. Sandy supporting the batman of the hectic officer. No matter the officer is busy or lazy with the day to-day schedule of his duty either concerned in war time or in peace time. Thing is that RAPE OF THE SENTIMENT OF THE SOLDIER. Although he is just 8 th pass may be incapable of spelling his own name, his cherished wish to serve the nation should be preserved. He might have dreampt to serve the nation in wielding the guns standing lone on glacier to shoot the enemies. He gets no chance of these. Instead he wields the Sahibs’ dog, carries vegetable shoppers, and dirty clothings of the boss for washing. Don’t u think his image as a human being is shattered? Before enrollment into the army the same soldier comes to know that batmanship is also the part of his national duty, he could have avoided it. Why didn’t the army tells these during recruitment of troops? If the officer is busy with all onerous responsibilities why the Army is not considering formation of a separate wing ABC (Army Batman Corps) like ASC, EME, Signal, Medical on basis of their profession. If so, no jawan would be humiliated. because he knew that he defined his job and expected as per his 8th pass.
Somewhere in the writings one says , A clerk doesn’t know to draft a letter, which is also burdened by the officer. Who is responsible for this? The system which entangled with corruption. During recruitment policy for a clerk, you demand minimum 10 or 12 th pass with typing knowledge at a required speed. you test the drafting skills too. One jawan passes all these filtrations. Then he is sent to both basic and trade training. He passes thru all these. Yet he is not competent. Where to cry these foul plays? In media now and then reports pour in involvement of ring of officers with other rank in carrying out all the malpractices. Then how can we expect valid and skilled human source in army? During services too, tests are conducted like Map Reading and trade tests. If a sahayak of Brigadier is due for his Nb/Sub rank, lacking Map Reading Standard one is as requirement, It is the Education Officers/ JCO / NCO’s prime duty to uphold it with loyalty. Otherwise it is a great question of service to all men challenging their boss wish. And the sahayak at high end will never attend the class and now and then takes and reminds the Brigadier’s name. When this man after promotion, if his batmanship is broken due to change of new faces of the post, gets detailment on border with Pak along with few young jawans for an assignment, instead of roaming on his motherland, he would be in trouble volunteerly inviting enemy along with juniors. How this all occurs.? Because of our dangerous FISH. selfish. With this we call it national service with pride. Truth can not hidden. one should not lead a fake life under the skin of holy cow.
One Lt col doing the language course in Army Education corpse, Pachmarhi (MP) was in recent past a familiar hero supporting terrorist group Malegoan. Many more names were taken. Is this the news blown out of proportion by the envious media? The def minister has acceded to the serving officers’ involvement in the country’s one of the heinous acts. Will any one accept that a serving officer acts as a terrorist and prime responsible for the blast which took many innocent lives. Such an officer must have undergone all the norms and parameters of the Service Selection Board (SSB). Then where does his service to the nation gone for? Or will the people trust his service as a prime service to the nation?
Spying also a way of life of uniform people. Espionage report mushrooms now and then. Is this also blown out proportion? plenty of news varieties. diminishing the image of the well known Indian Army, in which was once the selfless JAWANS like Gen. Kariappa and Gen Meenakshaw served their best. Still I love my country its forces and its men. All are not same. More sacrifice their lives and many more LIVE ON their sacrifice.
Now see atleast one Gen in a month gets his name entry in defaulter list, either in hijacking the liquor of the jawan or ration of the jawan or clothes, fund malpractices, illicit relation with brother officers’ wives or serving women officers. Is this all in the name of service, for which we are unwilling to send our wards???????????????.
Eager to hear from your side…
The major surprise to me now is Why in Indian army only, suicides happen? No where on earths’ any army of any backward African nation, such suicide and counter killing take place. At present the American Army seems to be in more trouble with Afghanistan. America may have lost lives of more soldiers in Afghanistan than previous wars. In spite of the psychological stress and strain, even in US army the soldiers still make no such weird activity like suicide and killing of own staff. Is there any one to respond me please ??
good to hear from you again Mr. Thomas!
Now that you ‘ve educated us with so many ills in the army and its functioning…. could u please be kind enough to tell us the solutions also ?? inspite of all these problems, the army still happens to be most trusted and honest govt organisation even today…..
You said, “Before enrollment into the army the same soldier comes to know that batmanship is also the part of his national duty, he could have avoided it. Why didn’t the army tells these during recruitment of troops?”…….. what about sons of soldiers and JCOs joining as Jawans…..over 50% boys in regiments are sons of ex or serving soldiers/JCOs……u mean to say that they are not aware of the sahayak system ?? come on don’t shy away from the reality…..
You are absoloutely correct when you say that the army is at loss when a Jawan kills himself or others……but tell me the way out….
the army doesn’t exist on its own….. it’s part of the society….. it gets its officers and men from the society….. so the army is what you and me are… and the what the society as a whole is….. with basic social values vanishing even from the so called well insulated middle class of our society, what else can u expect …… A country of over 1.2 billion is not able to provide suitable material(Morally straight men as officers and mentally strong men as jawans) to join army and safeguard it…..how pity !! it’s really sorry state of affairs….tell me in which country in the world including the ones you mentioned from the afirca, has shortage of officers…..
you’ve asked that offr should work for country without DA and other allowances….. even with these allowances and pay army is short of 12000 officers….. tell me why best of the bright sparks don’t join army and go for MNC, pvt sector or abroad?? agreed there are more eager and willing boys in rural areas ready to join army and sacrifice their lives for the nation…..but a soldier doesn’t win wars by dying…. even i want to become PM of the nation…. can I? or can u ?
If the whole problems being faced by the army is because of the officers why not do away with them? let’s have a class less army……no officers, JCOs or Jawans…..everybody serves the nation as a soldier, a selfless soldier…… what do u say?
Dear Deepu,Rahul, & Sandy,
I must first apologise for being AWOL when the war has been fierecely raging but even the reply I had posted three days back has dis-appeared in the etheral space because of some mal-function of this portal. One good thing that pleases me so much is of one who was guilty of some verbal infringement has come back with some ethical arguments and that is eloquent of Chetwood spirit which can not go with out appreciation.
Mr.Thomas who is arguing the case from this side of LOC with all logic and knowledge at his command requires to be respected for the restrained submission of the causes that leads the individual to lose his personal esteem which eventually makes him feel that there is no meaning in worldly existence. As Sandy has rightly suggested that there is more than one cause for committing suicide and Rahul and Deepu also have brought forth valid points that could be contributory factors.Here, the main theme of the treatment of Jawan has gained pre-dominance because of the fact, a parliamentary committee on defence had gone through the issue in detail and has expressed its shock on being made aware of the colonial practice and suggested the stoppage of such shameful exploitation which causes some revulsion to an educated mind in a democratic country. That this practice has been going on even after independence with out sanction of any law ,Army act or the DSR framed there-under, is a gross mis-carriage of justice to a particular segment in the armed forces can not be just defended. The fact a leader charged with more onerous responsibilities and even over-loaded with burdensome work because of shortage of officers can not take subterfuge for explicit transgression of laws governing human dignity when especially it contributes to selfish ends.The fact that some off-springs of PBORs are enrolling in the army as Jawans are well aware of the system prevailing in the forces is no defence for their continued sub-human treatment.This is tantamount to perpetuation of class distinction which is an anarchronism of the feudal era..
Ours is not the first organised fighting force in the world and there are some basic tenets of human behaviour one has to subscribe to what is being practised all over the world. Just because it existed in our country during the pre-independence era under the colonial masters, is no reason for its continued existence how ever abhorrent it may be ! A great general – Viscount Montogomerry was universally censured for a small indiscretion he committed in slapping a soldier 65 years back ! Days have changed since then . On the U.S.Airforce day in 2000, I was an invitee at Mclaughlin’s A.F. base at Wichita, Kansas and I wondered at the comraderie exhibited by the Sgt.Pilots and the General who were all war veterans, that took part in flying the old machine to demonstrate the attack on Pearl Harbour ! They served the nation with self esteem.
The officer belongs to higher cadre and discharges more importat duties can not be denied and his requirement of personal assistance will nevertheless enhance his productivity and personal morale can not be under-estimated. But should it be at the expense of Jawan or as Mr.Thomas has suggested that anopther corps entirely dedicated to personal service of the officer be raised for the purpose, but then, it will reflect on the tail to teeth ratio !
And lastly I would like to touch upon the fringe aspect of this luxurious pampering without any accountability. The officer on getting accustomed to such mindful caring by an army of Jawans loses the ability to cultivate such enduring human characteristics, that will will take him a long distance in civil career.First he loses his compassion for fellow beings if the could fetch him a bit of pleasure to his wife and childern.He does not bother to learn the know the intricacies of his own technical or admin. work so long some body below at the lowest level can fix it up some how or the other.I know quite a few of the senior officers when appointed to very senior levels were un-able to handle problems in real life and had to make a fool of themselves and quit the job un-ceremoniously. “Aray yar I had umpteen people to do this job for me and I did not have to worry “, does not cut any ice in civilian responsibility. A Major Genl. who was the COO of a battery manufacturing plant was told by his Chief Engr. that the workman are refusing to work witout first settlement of their demands, and he responded by saying that it amounts to “mutiny” and threatened to have the leaders arrested. The next day the management sacked him. Ask any Col.,M.G. or even Lt.Gen. who has undergone the re-settlement course in IIM Ahmedabad. They are all told to learn to question the superiors when their orders defy logic.Of course that can not be done in the army as the implicit obedience is the basis of all discipline in any fighting force but I have just quoted the above to point the directioh in which the mind works ! A Major who refused to sacrifice his troops for capturing Tiger hill after the cease fire, was court-martialled and you know that it was reversed by high court on appeal !
Lastly I would suggest that that if you start thinking on the lines that we have discussed here, I am sure that the troops that are serving under you will greatly appreciate your mind -set and offer their lives to protect the country more readily when you make them feel that your life is as good as theirs ! The percentile of officer casualty is no indication of how efficiently, the troops are commanded.
There is no question of Officer or Jawan when there is mis-carriage of Justice, as in the case of Napolean’s France, the whole nation rose to one man – Capt.Dreyfus when he was incarcerated and a re-knowned author Emily Zola (Author of Nana) was in the fore-front. All friends here who have contributed to this discussion are worth their weight in gold and I am sure they are possessed of thinking minds.This was not hppening before.Jai Hind !
Mr. Krishnan,
I fully agree with you that a parliamentary committee on defence had gone through the issue in detail and has expressed its shock…… why ‘ve their recommendation has not been implemented ?? Because it’s practically not possible…..
I might not be as learned as you, nor ‘ve I been ever invited to any other country to attend their functions….. I ‘ve not even got any chance to interact with the men / officers of other countries…… by my assessment, you are either a serving or retired senior air force officer….. unlike air force, army has got certain peculiar problems….by any means i don’t want to convert this discussion into a war of words between army and the AF….. but let me put forward certain practical problems…. these problems are more prevailent in field than peace stn….
you are correct when you say that offrs are trained to do everything….. including to dig DTLs (deep trench latrines) and fighting trenches…..but that doesn’t mean they’ve to do everything….. even AF offrs r trained to do everything but do they do everything ?? Let’s not get into what AF offrs don’t do….your so called sahayak is infact the buddy of the officer….. he is responsible for his wpn & eqpt and their maintenance….. offr can but dont’ maintain or clean his weapon, dig trenches, cut grass, paint the walls, do sentry duties….. coz he’s got more important things to do….moreover everybody in the unit don’t clean their own wpn…. if one is cleaning the wpn, others r helping in the cook house, some go for drawing of amn, while some load the stores in the vehs…..some r on guard duty then others r taking rest after being relieved….it’s all team work…….nothing is menial in this…..its just routine being followed there..!!
now you cant expect an offr just b’coz he is an offr….. to draw his wpn, clean it, draw amn, load stores, prepare orders, plan the operation, brief the platoon and section cdrs and the company as a whole and then lead them into the operation too….. you’ll say why not? but can u imaging how much time it’ll take??….. by your logic, the officer then should give standing sentry duties, cut veg in cook house, fetch water to cook house, sweep the entire unit lines, water the plants in the unit area, cut the grass, carry mail / sig to signal centre, clean the coy lines, work in CSD Canteen, man the signal exchange, guard the quarter guard and main gate etc….. all these things to be done by officer, is practically neither possible nor feasable….. tell me in which advanced army do officers do all these things….. if you call these duties menial….then i’m sorry….
you ‘ve given a good example of a sgt pilot and a general….. trust me the IQ level of both of them must be almost equal, if not equal….in US even a sgt leads a platoon into the battle…. here even for making tea arrangement for any function, a officer is reqd….that’s the efficiency of our NCOs and JCOs…. there in USA, the edn level of offr and men, might not be different here it is, and there’s no comparasion of IQ….. AF might be different, a airman can never be compared to a jawan…. he can’t even handle a fraction of the duties or responsibilities what a airman handles in the AF… at the same time these airmen don’t do your so called menial jobs, coz you’ve NC(E)s and army doesn’t…..
Mr Krishnan, let me tell you, I’ve served in the AF as a sgt and my father retd from AF as a warranted rank…..so I too know about the AF I’ve seen it during my childhood till now, but army does’ve certain operational problems in field / exercise areas….. if someone is misusing and exploiting the buddy who is supposed to help the offr at the peace station, then it’s another problem….
you’ve said that, batman, sahayak etc are not provided in any law, army act or DSR, Mr Krishnan I beg to differ here, check your details again…… check the authorisation again, as per it army is authorised to have ORDERLIES, check what does it mean…… they are not recruited as a spl Corps as suggested by Mr Thomas (ABC- Army Batman Corps)….. they are part of the authorised str of the Soldiers GD (General Duties) as per the organisation of any unit….. any jawan in the unit can be appointed as an Orderly….. yes, i’m correct, anybody can be appointed…..it’s an appointment in the rank of Sepoy / Lance Naik i.e. your AC / LAC…..
as for his duties…… of course he’s not supposed to – cut veg at home, wash clothes, take the dog for walk, sweep or mop the floor, wash dishes…..or do anything that one might consider below dignity….. yes u got it correct, he’s not a servant…. but he’s supposed to do everything else that’s officially auth as far as the officer and his wpn, eqpt or stores are concerned even in the peace station…. he’s not supposed to take any orders from either the lady or the kids…..they can only request him….how one used that orderly is a million dollar question…..
infact I’ve seen AF officers requesting for a so called sahayak from their neighbouring Army units that are dependent on them for ferrying of stores to their forward posts by a/c or choppers…… and the CO doesn’t refuse for obvious reasons….
Dear Deepu,
I am proud to know of your lineage of two generations of service in the IAF which gives you an additional advantage to evaluate the individual’s personal feelings . I do not dis-agree that any person in the armed forces can be appointed as an orderly to perform a set of duties that have been explicitly set out in the manual of duties and should have no regrets in performing that task. My nephew a Col.was officer in waiting (orderly) when ever F.M. Cariappa used to come and stay at the ASC Centre mess in Bangalore, which he proudly recalls on all occasions.
I do not think any where in the discussion we have deprecated the fact that an army Jawan deputed to clean the weapons or perform such other maintenance of army equipment that belongs to the officer is performing a menial job.What one denounces is the exploitation of the soldier for performing jobs that in civil are done by the personal servant and the maid about which you have clearly expressed your opinion.That is where the soldier’s personal esteem is under attack which he mourns without any redress !
Regarding A.F. officers asking for batmen from the army for some personal service, it is as reprehensible as the greedy on -looker wishing to participate in a gang rape !
Mr. Deepu
Thank you for the prompt response.
It won’t be pride to me to educate your patriotic soul to educate all the ills and functioning of the army. This is all due reflections of the powerful multimedia, revolutionary information technology and the democratic rights of our mother land. Gone are the days when a common man knew nothing about the defence forces. At present everyone knows everything about anything. This is also one of the major reasons for the forces’ crying on shortage of its strength. Many a times in your verses you mentioned “shortage of officers”. I beg to tell you here still you do not realize the factors even after reading the counter comments of Mr Krishnan and me. More over , you need to accept this that the highest IQ of the society won’t select the army service although you termed the service “as the most trusted and honest organization”.
I bow my head before your strong trust on the army service. But if you realize the on going actual factors, hope You would at least accept my views @ 5%.
Secondly You have been insisting us to accept that the serving sahayaks / helpers / orderlies ( ornamental English literature word that most of hapless 8 pass and unfortunate serving helpers may not know the danger role of it in the name of patriotism) / batman ( the yet another colonial / confusious word among helpers in its spelling with synonymous BET man / BED man or BAD man ) the sons of PBOR, knew the patriotic sahayak job, the MENIAL works( for mania people) before their entry into the army. I accept @ 100%. These guys knew well. There must be parental advice for the SOFT service in army. The father who never , ever faced wars, and only did the patriotic service with his boss ,his wife, kids and to their grand parents as BHAIYA to all ages, might have guided his ward about the service. Smoooooooooooth an pooooooolish service without any bad remarks on ACR. Next promotions are certain jumping / superseding skillful competent peers in maaring (hindi word) the short cut of the line under the blessings of his holy fathers and mothers. No BPET (Battle Physical Efficiency Test), no firing no drill and no heavy / night guard duty. Pension is ensured after minimum 15 years of dedicated service to the officer ( I mean the Nation). No imminent war and no eminent hurdle in sanctioning Chchutti. Gunnery is more harder than Sewadhary. The service (Sewa) is attached only in batmanship but not in any other word. So as you said these fellows already knew this. Even most of them who found genetic delicacy in this service, will always be volunteer for this peculiar service. He can be right hand of the Commanding Officer( this depends on the 360 degree of polishing ). The best batman of a General can even command the coveted rank Brigadier in his way of style. This is on going truth in hectic way in Delhi, that you may not deny by heart, although it hurts you.
The past and present generation of Sahyaks in army not only fooling the nation and the army service but also gtreat loss of the country’s economy . The major loss to meet the pension of the batman group at their premature retirement will be huge to realize. Because such batman will live long after their retirement with the multitude of their years of army service enjoying all alloted quota (liquor) applicable to Ex-serviceman before attending self last rites.
Here in army we are supporting this group in appointing as our orderlies for our own Sake in not considering the Shake of the nation, though it Shocks the parliamentary committee. As we are patriotic towards our service we should say good bye to this dangerous cause of ILL of army. It seems ridiculous to know that they should be my batmen as they already knew the job that my wards and I going to get them in the army.
You asked me why the best bright sparks do not join the army? Why should they join as they are best sparks, I ask you ??? IBM, Infosys,Windows, Apple, Wipro waiting as their Right Choice baby, (as in song).
Army service is not for the best sparks but for the medium / ordinary and worst sparks. Best sparks wont’t stay there doing all the saudhan and vishram (Left & Right). They will be Bagodaas( deserters) during the training itself. Even SSB would accept my views. Their scale of selection is such. The most rejected and dejected SSB candidates were in better posts of the nation. The first post of nation, the President ship is an supreme example. The former peoples president, the best spark, the highest scientific IQ man, at last a well humanitarian, none other than Mr. Abdul Kalam was once rejected for service in Defence forces. The rejected and dejected candidate later become the supreme commander of the forces. I wonder that the man who was not fit to become flight lieutenant later on become its Supreme Commander. If he would have been selected unfortunately in the forces, either he might be later knocking the legal authority for seeking any justice. So the best spark at last spared to shine later.
You said a county of over 1.2 billion yet shortage. For this please refer to your sentence that I am educating all the ills of army. Every one of non wisher is already educated the every ill of the service for which I am not responsible neither I did coaching to them. The reasons are damn sure. You said for a Tea party arrangement an Officer is required in army. So you need a best spark of the nation to arrange the tea party. AAHHHH….You will spoil a man’s life… My dear sir , please understand , it won’t be possible for ever. If a pursuant of job as an officer happens to read your and my sentence of tea arrangement in army , we will be the main cause in discouraging him not to join in army . His 5% of desire will also die.
To your last point for Not the class less army……. . no to do away with officers.
Will you accept this lay man’s suggestions…Learn from other armies. Why suicides and staff killings are not there…. Be with humanity. A human touch between the ranks. No backward and forward. No rank consciousness..do not identify the man as per his rank… identify him as human being (not bumanbeens) … identify your peer as a pack of senses and full of sentiments….. No high class and low class…….respect each rank particularly the lower rank….. keep justice and do for all… do not encourage favoritism for own sake…..be kind enough…. be a soldier than an officer……prepare to follow rather to command…..take soft corner in the so called 8 pass guy’s heart….. make him to feel that you are his hero…..both in physique and mind………be moral support…….. If you are going alone in four seater govt car, get that menial job guy into the vehicle to realize how good you are…….. If are punishing him for not saluting your empty flag car or any maruti jeep, for the fake power, then this on going tragedy that we are harshly and hotly dealing with will never finds its full stop.
Thank you for patient reading………
This man of ABC will reappear again to see your much awaited response………..
Dear Krishnan, ( Mr.Deepu to read),
Hats off to your sentence (my proposed nominee for the Award of Best Sentence (ASC) of the year).
“Air Force Officers asking for batman from the army for some personal service, it is as reprehensible as the greedy ON_LOOKER wishing to participate in a GANG RAPE”
I studied little bit Hinglish, Tamilish Literature( Not the original English Literature of Shakespere) and came across many sentences. But this sentence kindled me a lot, and made me to realize your goodness of Acceptance and your stance for Justice for a grave cause of the present Forces. Superb comparition with rape. Army is raping its own soldier thru batman ship, and Air Force officers are also invited to taste its sweetness of climax and other on lookers like neighboring Navy units are also extended a warm welcome.
Mr. Deepu in his words ” Air Force officers requesting for a so called sahayak from their neighboring Army units that are dependent on them for ferrying of stores to their forward post by choppers….. and the CO does NOT refuce for obvious reasons……
Here what does the author mean.? I think he supports the rape of his soldier…. and further he invites to rape his own men to be raped by Air Force…… and seems no repentance of getting his men being gang raped by any on lookers and passersby…. and a warm and open welcome to all to take part in the Bada khana (Banquet)…….. What a wonderful character CO here comes……A CO who serves his service for perks and pension……A CO without conscience of his own blood (y) men to be f***ed by others……No repentant CO……. Is he Commanding Officer or Carbon Mono oxide?????????, ( note the chemical formula for the poisonous gas carbon mono oxide is also CO) A great shame to the system…….The hidden sadness in me is that the men who support the batman doesn’t feel as a humanitarian.
Rifle cleaning is NOT at all a menial job. For a professional excellence and self defence one needs to clean his own hathiyaar ( weapon)……..Either let him be the most powerful General or powerless 8 pass sepoy . Both are SAHAYAKS AND BATMAN of government, which feeds them and clothes them uniformly. A personal gun provided by the government is synonymous with personal / private / secret part of the body…… Does any one require any batman for cleaning of his part.? Is it because of his onerous and frequently used over loaded work.???
Here are some points and solutions that Mr Deepu asks for………
* Grass cutting / drainage cleaning on either sides of civil road in a shabby PT dress….Don’t you feel what the civil will think of your men in uniform? After displaying this you worry about the SHORTAGE……..
* presence of a Gunner in the house as sahayaks to look after the memsahib and wards, when the Sahib is away on duty….. In Delhi cantonment quarters, a Brigade of Batman (BB) roaming from door to door of all officers out station quarters…
* Calling an young soldier as BHAIYA by all ages. 5 yrar old kid calls him as bhaiya 15 yr old girl calls him bhaiya… 40 year old Memshahib calls him Bhaiya and bed ridden 75 year old mother or in laws of the sahib also calls him as bhaiya…. Bhai, bhaiya ka matlab hai kya????
* Fight with the government for further perks and allowances as Batman Allowance (BA) that government’s authorization of ORDERLIES to be replaced into a Civil maid…..
* Propose for ABC ( Army Batman Corps) to keep your Gunners spirit alive….
* I noticed that a young sepoy who recently married then, was serving hot samosa on a plate like a waiter in Army Ladies meet, when his wife also was a guest. His wife had taken a mental ride to hell to realize his husband a well proposed SOLDIER of Indian Army before marriage now poses with plate as waiter. She might had thought that if her husband did this job in 5 star hotel atleast she would have been happy… waiter in the name of national service.. she can’t digest…..later some time she left for the home town and advertised his profession … bechara Bhaiya was in doubled troubles …. the future form the word marriage is Divorce… for which hot discussions went on… This was the real event…. Now Are they separated or united?? God or Indian Army only knows…. It is all because of plate lifting (Waiter)…. the life of a well cherished soldier is shattered into fragments in the name of primary service of the nation..
* Batmanship affects mind of the children of psyche sahayaks in the unit residential line. When all the soldiers leave their residence in the mighty olive greeen, this poor chap carries a bag full of dirty clothes of his boss in a shabby dress.. When his child being asked about what her father does in army what would be her response….just imagine… the entire family does bleeeeeeed in heart…. This is the fate of livelihood… what to do… let the life goes on….
Endless points in reserve….. I want not the readers but the action takers….
This is for all to read.
Brigadier ManMohan Sharma (FRGS) authored a book called ” I shall NOT volunteer in the roads of Corruption in the Indian Army ” .
Let me present some of the selected excerpts from his controversial book banned by the Indian Army.
* (COAS) Chief of the Army Staff is an Ass. Page no.2
* “What can be more ridiculous in the world when those who are highly wicked represent themselves the really honest in army??”
* Billion Dollar question
“Will the officers who are fighting legal battle against state fight a battle against the enemy whole heartedly for the state?”
* ” If the battle field experience be the sole criteria for Promotion, all the Mules in Russian army would have to be appointed Field Marshals”
“OLIVE GREEN HOME TRUTHS” a book written by Subedar Major Kunju.
Some of its excerpts here follow…
** Gen K Sunderji wrote to all officers when he assumed the office of the army staff. “”Being a Gentleman does not Westernizer and becoming a poor imitation of “White Sahib”it does not mean a tie and a jacket or the ability to handle a knife and fork just so……..
Unfortunately No officer could afford to stick to the tenets of Gen.K. Sunderji. They know he could talk now that he had reached the pinnacle and when it came to Brass Tacks he would prefer a “White Sahib” image.
** War cries
Jwala ma ki jai ——-Punjab Regt
Kalika ma ki jai ——–Kumaon Regt
Durga ma ki jai_____Dogra Regt
Dadri vashsl ki jai—-Garhwal Regt
Bajrang bali ki jai——Bihar Regt
Please note all war cries are supporting Hindu soldiers’ sentiments only. Neither a Christian nor a Muslim finds a war cry which is suitable to his Personal Lord. This is question of Army’s secularism??
( Here I, Thomas, suggest few war cries for Christians and Muslims if army accepts….
” Alleluia Alleluia ki jai…….
” MARY mata ki jai……………
” Amen ameen ji jai……….
” Allahu Akbar ki jai…………. ( How are these? Good cries….Aha aha aha……)
** Where a man from Arunachal Pradesh could join in an infantry as there is no Arunachal Pradesh Regiment?????
( My views here follow , the author is correct.
Bihari joins in…………… Bihar Regt
Madrasi joins in——– Madras Regt ( Excuse me Tamil Nadu CM Mr. M K K arunanithi ,although you changed Madras into Chennai in everything expending crores of tax, here in Madras Regt, the word Madras can not be changed into ” Chennai Regiment” . If you have political guts prove it in the next Election pledge. Aha Aha………)
Assamese joins ——– Assam Regiment
if so where would the unfortunate citizens of other states like, Arunachal Pradesh , UP, MP, Karnataka, Sikkim, HP…etc … join?? I strongly predict that this could me main factor for not joining army and causes SHORTAGE OF OFFICERS in army. aha aha…..
My personal writings
On caste wise
Rajput caste ……Rajputana…Raj Rifle
Dogra caste……..Dogra Regt
I am a scheduled caste and scheduled Tribe….tribal back ground…. my fore fathers and five mothers were jumping between the trees like Homo sapiens. For us no regiment on basis of our caste or talent. We are highly compatible with world guerrilla warfare as we are experts wild life in woods……
my persona view end here…….)
Sub Kunju writes on Generals
” The Generals too on their part are too timid by the time they make to the top and tend to complete their term without questioning the existing system……Most of them are time servers and even have an eye on government appointment after their army career,for which they have to depend upon the good will of the politicians in power. So rarely any one of the Top Brass dare to differ with the politicians and bureaucrats…….
“Top Brass” a familiar book written by Brigadier H S Sodhi, 4 Gurkha Rifles
Few excerpts here come…….
**Requirement of luxuries are brought in from distant places at immense cost and effort. The seniors attending know it, but do not question this or how the expenses are met because they consider all this as their right by rank, appointment and years of service. The same attitude applies in individual living. The stage has come when even unit commanding officers keep unit cooks, unit dhobhi, extra batman in the house, an establishment less than six is considered infra big.. and this increases with appointment.
*** Brigadier in Corps HQ, I was instructed by Chief of Staff to reduce the use of transport by officers and also use of batman .. This was the time when in a row of nine senior officers’ flats every morning eight jeeps / staff cars would arrive in the morning to take the officers the distance of 400 yards to the office and of course bring them back. I offered to do this in just 3 days if the chief of staff would co -operate in the way of not using his staff car and also in reducing the number of batmen he had just for himself and his wife. He most indignantly refused on the plea of status and years of service,. That was end of the desire to reduce the use of transport and batman.
** Bogus duty slips for transport…….. orders are being flouted for perks to get sanctioned by officers…..
*** The jawan and JCO today is no longer Un Questioning “Ji Hazoor” type to be taken for granted.
****** Unfortunately army officers’ wives are the ones who like to flaunt and use the powers and perks of the rank of the husband the most.. Passing of orders to staff officers by them is now so common in the army…..
** The army top brass let down the organisation during peace also.., which leads to its indifferent performance during war….
***** In a democracy, the army will never be the First Choice of any Brilliant student”.. the outlets in the army are restricted…..( Mr Deepu please note this point, which is open view to the world that may be ’cause’ for your most crying SHORTAGE disease of army.)
I shall reappear again to educate further…. I am just Reproducing ..the Producers are eminent figures…. At least those authors would be happy and grateful to me to learn in reaching their books at free of cost to all the unpad (hindi) of the such holy books. ( The hindi word Unpad exactly means unread )
Jai Hind……. Jai Kisan… Jai sepoy.(Jawan)/ Sahayak/ Batman
Dear Mr. Thomas,
Thanx for educating me….but you seem to be talking from the extreme end of the spectrum….the condition in the army especially of the so called oppressed and suppressed sahayak is not that bad as u r trying to bring it out….. coming to the specific points…..
* “Learn from other armies. Why suicides and staff killings are not there…. ” Suicides and staff killings are there in all the armies….only thing is that u r not exposed to foreign media….check out yesterday’s (07 Nov 09) Times of India….an US army officer shot and killed 13 of his colleagues….I hope, Mr Thomas, he was not employed by the mighty US Army as a sahayak !!
* “More over , you need to accept this that the highest IQ of the society won’t select the army service although you termed the service “as the most trusted and honest organization ….inspite of all the ills that u ‘ve mentioned, there’s no shortage of the so called sahayaks, batmen, bhaiyas, slaves etc in the army….neither there is any shortage of people willing to join in thousands in the army… including from the so called well educated and financially well off thambis (Tamilians & Malayalees), punjabis, gujratis and the so called poor and poorly educated UP, Biharis and NE people…..
* “Because such batman will live long after their retirement with the multitude of their years of army service enjoying all alloted quota (liquor) applicable to Ex-serviceman before attending self last rites……..strange you too r bothered about the liquor…..
* No BPET (Battle Physical Efficiency Test), no firing no drill and no heavy / night guard duty. Pension is ensured after minimum 15 years of dedicated service to the officer ( I mean the Nation)….. drainage cleaning on either sides of civil road in a shabby PT dress……this poor chap carries a bag full of dirty clothes of his boss in a shabby dress…. young sepoy who recently married then, was serving hot samosa on a plate like a waiter in Army Ladies meet……………about this view of yours, I’ve got only one thing to say — Either you don’t ‘ve any idea of the functioning of the Army, (which is most unlikely, b’coz u seem to be from the Gunners family) or you served in a real filthy atmosphere in a filthy unit……I say this b’coz-
– Nobody serves continuously as a sahayak for 15 yrs.
– Nobody cleans drainage on the sides of civil road.
– Nobody who is married and staying with family in the stn is detailed as sahayak or as waiters……all waiters are waiters are by trade and they r recruited as such for the said purpose……
* prepare to follow rather to command”……… If everybody follows, then who commands……everybody is a commander and everybody has to follow somebody superior….. starting from the smallest Det Cdr say LMG Det, Sec Cdr, Pl Cdr, Tp Cdr, Bty/Sqn/Coy Cdr to CO, Bde/Div/Corps/Army Cdr everybody has to follow somebody at the sametime command somebody….. pls dont try to undermine the command structure….
* and Air Force officers are also invited to taste its sweetness of climax”…….u’ve used a good language…….u seem to be having good knowledge and experience about the RAPE……. once an air force pilot takes to the sky…..he has to come back and collect snow heat it to melt it and get water and wash is face in an area where the temp are below-25 degrees…… since AF manpower is committed in maint of a/c and controlling the flying….is it rape if someone helps them …… that too where no civ are permitted ?? AF officers employ civ maid/servants in all stns……how could someone be so illogical ??
As for war cries of the regts u mentioned…… all of them are hindu regiments…..formed on the basis of caste by the britishers…..they don’t ‘ve christians/muslims as sikh/ sikh li don’t ‘ve hindu/muslim/christians…..
there’re regiments where muslims too are serving…..those regiments don’t have hindu war cries……
* if so where would the unfortunate citizens of other states like, Arunachal Pradesh , UP, MP, Karnataka, Sikkim, HP…etc … join?? I strongly predict that this could me main factor for not joining army and causes SHORTAGE OF OFFICERS in army……………for your kind information the officers are not recruited on the basis of religion, region, caste etc……an officer can be posted to any regiment…..so this can’t be the reason for shortage of officers……
Even after so much exloitation of jawans…..jawans are available in plenty…..and the so called oppressors, maniacs, officers are still in short supply…….so who is hard pressed…..
this is for all
you just tell me why officers are less in army, if they re getting so many privilages, allowances, perks and servants……
I am not able to figure out
kindly educate me……
Dear Mr. Deepu,
You had expressed your concerns that I seem to be talking from the extreme end of the spectrum and I am most bothered about the so called oppressed and suppressed sahayak sections of I army…..and further went on alleging me in your holy words “”‘about this view of yours, I’ve got only one thing to say — Either you don’t ‘ve any idea of the functioning of the Army, (which is most unlikely, b’coz u seem to be from the Gunners family) or you served in a real filthy atmosphere in a filthy unit…”"”"
The extreme end of spectrum can be seen or experienced only by those who are expert /adept /skilled men. I truly LOVE this sentence, thru which u throw some credit on me.
Contrary to your own previous point, you have jumped into the very opposition of your appreciations by mocking me as….a person with no idea of functioning of Army, or a sayayak among Gunners, or served in real filthy atmosphere in filthy unit…….
I would like to inform you that a man speaks with references from different army related books written by coveted ranks of I. army, can not be a person without the knowledge of renowned I army. No other allegations from my side, except pity on your change of opinion and assumption of my link with gunners. Please do not think I belong to Gunner family. I took gunner as the rank for batman. I could have taken Signal man, GD sepoy, etc….. By praising Indian Army a HEALTHY one, you have gunned it down by abusing that it has “real FILTHY unit”, where I might have served. Here also you are standing in bi poles.
Mr. Deepu, for your kind and kindest info, Neither Mr. Krishnan nor me never and ever seemed to have accepted in this portal that any duty concerned with army either for self or for the sake of boss IS NOT menial and by doing these a jawan can not be transformed into batman. We are insisting on NO to the Soldier the DOMESTIC works in civil atmosphere , which can be done by the civil maid. Again you QUOTE martial us in your hot dictions that ……. once an air force pilot takes to the sky…..he has to come back and collect snow heat it to melt it and get water and wash is face in an area where the temp are below-25 degrees…… since AF manpower is committed in maint of a/c and controlling the flying….is it rape if someone helps them …… that too where no civ are permitted ??
About US army officer’s shooting of his own 13 staff. A rare event in mighty US army unlike the sour news in I army. Not only there in US, everywhere this untoward incident takes place. A Gun with the soldier is a toy with the innocent child. In a fit of rage it sees nothing except gunning down. Here must be a psychological disorder caused by may be disobedience of staff or hatred of service but I am damn sure NOT by batmanship. The officer of US army….. a batman?????… In I army if such incident is occurred by a low rank soldier, there might be talk of one good reason with the soldier. This is also CLIMAX of anger may be caused due to hatred of between rank structure. I do say a batman never turn into killer. If he is fully satisfied with this soft service he will be ever defender of his boss even with the gun too. If the batman pressurized into this batman service, the so called victim of the bad… man….ship, will wait for this turn to revenge with the powerful solver, the gun , issued by his army. I defend it by saying the killing of own staff in army is the result of psychological disorder of the soldier from various fields, not only from the batmanship.
You have shown indifference that why there is NO shortage of jawans/ batman/ sahayak in army?? (………….there’s no shortage of the so called sahayaks, batmen, bhaiyas, slaves etc in the army….neither there is any shortage of people willing to join in thousands in the army… including from the so called well educated and financially well off thambis (Tamilians & Malayalees), punjabis, gujratis and the so called poor and poorly educated UP, Biharis and NE people……….) Unemployment precedes the patriotism. A large section of less educated people….. Where will they go.? Can everyone become as an officer? IQ and education level are the great concerns. I have already discussed that the entrant knows about the so called patriotic service that he is going to perform in army. Yet it is the FATE of the society, where he ekes out. The civilian in India bribes the system in huge amounts to become a batman. An easy exit ……. without caste and creed…. The over population, illiteracy , unemployment, unskilled, are the main good reasons for their induction including educated and financially well off thambies & Malayalese ..; in your terms….So Mr Deepu what do you mean here?? As there is huge arrival of jawans than officers, you will defend their batmanship… This seem to be ridiculous….. One thing I would like to ask you…. Will you allow your own son to be batman??? Can you digest the sight of plight of your in- born brother, an 8 th pass guy, doing house hold jobs in one of your staff officer’s house, under a danda of a memsahib???
To these questions, you surely need to re consider…….a matter of blood relationship….
And further to your points, I have seen a batman with colour service ( 15 years nothing). In a Sainik News Letter, published from New Delhi, One Major General wrote such….. Since he was Lieutenant in a unit a sepoy nearby his home town came as a batman…..goooooood bondage established…….. good understanding between an officer and a jawan…… where ever he is posted in all higher promotions this batman too went with him rendering colour service. A matter of surprise is that this patriotic batman was promotioned to the rank of Junior Commissioned rank. And great surprise is that both were now in ununiform ( I mean out of service)are residing inside by quarters…..in a same place… I have a paper cutting of this to prove with personal names and date of the publication………..(. I predict the JCO batman would have sent a platoon of batmen , his wards and progenies to the army under the aegis of the Major General)
I had seen with my own god gifted naked eyes in one of the training centre, that the recruits were engaged in gandaa naali safayee..on either sides of a civil road……
Regarding hot somasa service …… You have said that all waiters in army are doing the job by their trade. In a unit hardly very few, are only unit waiters. Unit waiters mostly either engaged in Brigade officer Mess or higher or with unit officer Mess. Most of the waiters used in either in JCO mess or if there NCO mess, all bada khana programmes, and Lady welfare meeting, or sports event ..etc… Please check this truth that how far is this true to its depth. Other wise I need to allege you as you alleged me that know nothing about army functioning……
Prepare to follow rather than command……. Here I do not mean with your hierarchy.. The entire system will be collapsed…. More over it does matter of your pay and perks and promotions……….. I told with the jawans……. If you need to fetch a glass of water in stead of commanding at least one time in life do it self. Seeing this the jawan will melt like a candle……. a good trust will be nurtured…. Have you ever offered a glass of water to your batman in your house?? Is this act a damage of your image?? Please do it for the sake of goodness of god…. If army rule binds you, leave it behind and win the trust of your men whom you command and with at last whom you need to fight enemies with GUN………..
Indian Army is renowned in the universe for its apolitics… secular.. .. anti caste and creed….and submission to democratic power unlike Pakistan, where General declares him President with gun pow(d)er. I , never have indifferent views with these traits…. I fully agree with your point that neither a batman nor an officer is inducted on basis of caste and creed……….
Further to your holy point that I seem to be having good knowledge and experience about the RAPE…coooooooooooooooooool, Batmanship is used as a metaphor with RAPE by Mr. Krishnan. May be my language forced you to call me as a rapist. ….I know… we are not talking sexual rape ……, still you took it otherwise…… I should not use the word sweetness of climax, ……which i directly and indirectly very well mean the highest climax of exploitation of the soldiers as batmen in army….
Finally You just educate me despite of provision of so many privilages, allowances, perks and servants…(in your repeated terms)….. why the best / better/ good/ …and….. worst/ worse/ bad… unemployed sections of the society least consider the army service ???? Is there something wrong with the system??? Why don’t these hungry men to prefer continue the life in hunger rather than to be trapped in service.? You analysize and come with certain points then we shall be able to figure out together this grave concern of army…
Thanks …….. Never been tired / bored of discussing this national issue…….
Dear Mr Thomas,
I never defended employment of trained men for doing domestic work which can be done by a maid in civil society….. if at all this is being done, it is highly deplorable and condemnable….
Mr Deepu what do you mean here?? As there is huge arrival of jawans than officers, you will defend their batmanship… I’m not defending their employment as batmen, what i’m trying to say here is that, they after all, are not treated as badly as you are trying to bring out…… and if at all someone is forcing a jawan to do domestic work or to do the menial jobs which u’ve mentioned, he should be kicked out of the army…..
as for waiters, what i said was that no pers staying with family in station is detailed as waiter or a sahayak……and for certain occasions like sports competitions etc, the army doesn’t have the luxury funds to hire civ caterers or 5 star hotel staff…..but then no body with family is detailed in such functions……
by your logic, ceremonial guard at the quarter guard, CO’s stick orderly, runners, MES NCO, Reservation NCO, RP, tradesmen like barber, tailor, cobbler, cook, sweepers etc all will fall in the category of pers doing slavery or menial jobs….
A large section of less educated people….. Where will they go.? Can everyone become as an officer? IQ and education level are the great concerns…….now, here u r contradicting yourself…..earlier somewhere u said that now a days soldiers are well educated and even graduates and post graduates……now u ‘ve come to the actual point….the less educated and just matric pass boys join as jawan in the army becuase there’s no better employment for them in the civil society, which is developing rapidly and moving at a very fast pace…..but as compared to their counterparts in civil with similar education they earn many times more salary and perks in army…….that’s why there’s no shortage of jawans or JCOs in the army…..
why the best / better/ good/ …and….. worst/ worse/ bad… unemployed sections of the society least consider the army service ???? Is there something wrong with the system??? Why don’t these hungry men to prefer continue the life in hunger rather than to be trapped in service.? You analysize and come with certain points then we shall be able to figure out together this grave concern of army………Now coming to the shortage of officers let me tell u Mr Thomas, the IQ level expected from an officer is much higher than the average, they need to we well educated, competent, smart, intelligent and must have the so called OFFICER LIKE QUALITIES……. now after working so hard to develop all these things, when someone gets better opportunity in the civil society, anybody will go there only…..because govt / army doesn’t give pay or perks which even go somewhere near the corporate world, forget giving more than corporate world…..that’s the reason why the best of the talent joins then and no the army……
it’s not a fairy tale world, a person has to think about his family, kids and their future, especially keepin in view the uncertainity of life in this profession……why would one join if he ‘s not sure of the future of his family after he falls to a enemy bullet?? he’d better join infosis, wipro, TCS, reliance or even as a clerk in some damn govt dept than join army and risk his life for nothing…..
I don’t know whether u ‘ll agree with me or u’ll simply give counter points just for the sake of arguement……but the fact is that the ones who ‘ve joined the army, they’ve joined…..and they ‘re doing good job……the govt ‘ve to think about them who think about army, consider and then don’t join it because they feel the remuneration or pay package and privileges are not enough worth risking life and separation from family…..this is the primary reason for the shortage of officers in the army…….I have seen several officers quit army after 5yrs of service and look for better opportunities in the civil corporate world and earn several times the salary and perks that they used to get while in the army
the day a jawan or a Xth pass boy starts feeling the same thing that he’s better off and comfortable in civil job, the army will start facing shortage of jawans also, like some advanced countries have already started facing…..trust me that day is not too far……
Dear Mr.. Deepu,
Thank u for the prompt response.
I do agree @ 100% with your most of the points that you have discussed. You are the questioner and answerer too. You have enumerated the hidden causes for the shortage of officers in army and your fore casted regarding shortage of jawans , that too in this 1.2 billion strength man power. This is a warning to the government to realize and take stern steps before the problem being complicated further.
This time you seem to be more coooooooooooooooooooooooooool than expected.
War with weapon may end , but war of words never end.
Healthy discussions should be continued further…… Hope 2 meet u again with pleasure………. Thanks.
Dear Mr. Deepu,
Although you gave me a coooooool response, you confused me a lot with your saying that …….you do not defend batmanship………..and further state that………if at all this is being done, it is highly deplorable and condemnable………
So you are Not sure that it is BEING DONE……… the phrase ” If at all ” seems to trouble me further………
I never argued that all the jobs are menial jobs…….. If a cook by trade with graduation degree feels cooking is menial to him, it is the fate of his life, that he has invited as a profession. If the same unit cook cooks for the jawans of the unit, that may be his job satisfaction. And if the same chap is sent to an officer’s residence without considering his willingness , his work there may be termed as job adjustment or adaptation. And same hapless chap is forced for other domestic works like , taking boss’s pet for walk, sahib’s kid to school, cleaning the dining table, etc. Then it is batmanship……If it is personal pet,son, dining table no one hesitates. The thing to be noted here is ……in others presence, a civilian a memsahib,
……Among ten competent soldiers if one works as a helper in an officer’s house what would be his condition in facing rest of others, who may mock at him. This batman system has brought down the morale of the soldiers inexplicable extent…..Some serving batman have tryst with destiny… some are fighting with tears……. some find this as a best and soft job……..
I knew one incident one jawan was given haversack punishment by CHM. When being asked by me the jawan told me that he refused to be batman of the company commander. I asked him ‘” you were already doing helper job in a Capt’s residence, then what would be the problem?. More over you are going to be buddy of your own Company Commander? He replied that he is volunteer to be batman of any Memsahib of this unit or Brigade, but not under the company commander’s memsahib. Later on , I came to know that the heroine is villain like to every batman. No batman stays for a week…. One to One badli was the process there. I personally predict the Lt Col, the company commander may be lion to his lower rank but less than a mouse in front of his memshahib.. When Sahib himself is unadjustable with his life partner, who on earth can face such arrogant lady. It was the headache of Company Havildar Major (CHM) to satisfy the Memsahib in batman allotment…..Nearly ten to fifteen soldiers had served there as batman in a short time. Even the best batman of the entire Indian Army can not satisfy such Army Officer’s Wife……. This was the real event….I didn’t quote for the argument… If you are still with IF AT ALL in army, please check this truth particularly with Infantry Battalions. An officer in an Infantry unit is mini KING like…. ” Ram Ram Sahibji” were the salutations from the ” Ji Hazoor ” rank profiles… More over this so called “self kingdom reign” has already began its encounter to see its downfall. This change happens when batman becomes badman / bedman / betman. The day will come when no one will be any one’s batman. Have you not learnt that there are still many batman are serving with Out station officers’ quarters cantonment like Delhi, Meerut…..( When the officer is away in field stations ) There, the jawans are doing only MENIAL JOBS against of their conscience. Will you please accept such traditions are still being followed or not …. ? If so… condemn it and deplore it …as you said…..please do not use if at all it happens……I personally feel every batman is my brother, my in-born bhai. This inhuman exploitation should be kicked away at any cost, from my mother land army…..
You said the officer who forces his jawan to be his or other’s batman should be kicked. I imagine how many officers will you kick….?. At least one fiftyeth of officers strength should be kicked…. As for as forcing into batman is considered ….. It is very much alive in most of the infantry units still…… please consult with your peers of other corps or wings……. or inquire with served / serving low rank people.. they have hidden plenty of untold stories… heart hurtful messages they would reveal…
Due to forcing into this act one known sepoy to me had never returned from leave and army had later declared him as deserter. As a leader one should fight for this grave concern rather than with enemies for the sake of the so called element of patriotism….
This is yet another counter argument regarding graduation of sepoys. Here you said………. .now, here u r contradicting yourself…..earlier somewhere u said that now a days soldiers are well educated and even graduates and post graduates……now u ‘ve come to the actual point……..
Still I defend my view. We were talking batmanship for which I told that graduates and post graduates too pressed int this inhuman(e) work . Not with relate to job competition or shortage of jawans ….. Misinterpretation is at your end……. in my view graduates have entry into army within that expected age entry of recruitment and later they become post graduates thru distant education. There are many such post graduates in the rank of Sepoy or Naik.
As they lack the so called OFFICER LIKE QUALITIES( in your terms ) they couldn’t able to transform into officers……. All can not become officers… there are certainly as you said …..an extra ordinary IQ is in demand for the officer……To your surprise some batmen become officers…… When one attended Army Cadet College exam and passed through the SSB test, the so called hapless jawan / batman / helper become officer as he is found with bundle of officer like qualities later on. Any infantry jawan, I bet with you, at least for some period, he might had visited an officer’s residence either at centre or at serving unit for doing the so called menial jobs, domestic works….. There are a number of serving top brass officers entered thru ACC , might have tasted this batmanship at least for few hours, in their initial service as jawan…….. Now If you find a General who came thru ACC,and ask him whether he were a batman for someone, it would cause a great disaster to you if you are serving officer………. It is the human nature to weep and hate the life being the batman and exploit and enjoy the batman as being General….
What the ACC General thinks, saaalaaa, meine sewaadari ki tab, ab mein ek unit sewadar rakhunga…….
You pointed out the reason behind shortage of officers as “…….they feel the remuneration or pay package and privileges are not enough worth risking life and separation from family…..this is the primary reason for the shortage of officers in the army……I have seen several officers quit army after 5yrs of service and look for better opportunities in the civil corporate world and earn several times the salary and perks that they used to get while in the army……..
To my concern it is the least reason…..The vital reason is “Ghutan” an appropriate word for this psychological disorder…. a rape with consciousness by higher officials under the power of rank structure…….. The gentlemen who bid good bye to forces are the main victims of this very disease. In army only, I mean all universal armies……… ” DONKEYS HAVE GOT CHANCE TO RULE OVER HORSES” . The hapless best spark HORSE , with all praise worthy bundle of officer like qualities, will think about INFOSYS, when he is detailed to arrange a tea party for Brigadier’s visit. And he @ 100% makes up his mind when General’s wife abuses him in holy words… This is happening with all new officers… This seems to be hidden truth…but in limelight………
hope meet you with remains of spectrum… the untold stories of unsung heroes…..
i’m yet to see a graduate who joined as a jawan after completion of graduation except clerks and education havildars……the upper age limit remain 19 and half yrs….and one can complete graduation only by the age of 20 or more…..even if they complete their post grad later…..then too nobody who is naik is detailed as a sahayak…..
notwithstanding that you are correct…….whatever is happening is wrong…..lets end this batmanship….!!
it is a long chain my friend…..civ in disturbed areas are not treated well by jawans, jawans r not treated well by JCOs, JCOs r not treated well by offficers, officers r not treated well by generals, generals r not treated well by bureaucrats, bureaucrats r not treated well by ministers, ministers r not treated well by their party bosses( corrupt businessmen or mafia men), mafia is linked with police and police is again not treated well by politicians etc etc…..so where does all this end….it’s there in every dept of the indian govt….
ghutan is a right word used by u…..indian army needs a war to fight…..not like the kargil type localised conflice…. a full fledged war spread atlease over a couple of months…..all these problems will be sorted out…..
the govt will start treating its army and officers well……and the officers will start treating jawans well, think about their welfare in real terms, concentrate on their training more to get better success in the field and jawans will start taking interest in training, learning and following orders well….
this will cost us a lot as a nation in terms of money, loss to economy, and loss of trained and young men……now one has to think, is it really worth it……
Although as a graduate a jawan can not get entry into army within 19 years and 6 monthsof age , he receives graduation thru distant edn after entry during his stint in sepoy rank he serves as batman. Because I personally knew a batman in this category.
This has become Enough is Enough with Batman now , as you said lets end batmanship. OK…
The CHAIN of problems that you have quoted seems to be perfectly fit with regard to this nation. I should agree with you for all social and departmental diseases the evil devils are corrupt politicians and bureaucrats whose crores of money laying golden eggs in Swiss banks. The indigestible latest report from Swiss Government that crores of crores are with the ban without NOMINEES. This amount how ever wont’t be returned back to India…..See our Jharkhand Guy , a mine labourer in 1990s and a CM with scam tuning thousands of crores……
And your proposal……WAR……… to solve all these problems is very dangerous.
War……..that too…. not like the kargil type but…. a full fledged war spread at least over a couple of months……..Really it is Not worth of it…… you must confirm your statement how a war would bring solution to the already corrupted society……..
War brings destruction, havoc, hell of nature, loss of lives, and thus list goes on……… A literary Peace is expected after War NOT salvation of all social evils…….
It can not be Saviour of evils and sins…… In a corrupted society , where such war occurs, the seeds sown and the genes engraved will not stop its uniqueness even in reincarnation…….. It will play and continue with modern methods , its own previous roles…. How can a war will be solution to such problems????? This is beyond of my prediction……
I can not welcome WAR or even think of it for a while. This is a drastic end of the humanity…. In this modern world a war for a couple of months with neighboring nuclear capable countries, can not be ACCEPTABLE.
How can a war force a politician to treat well the bureaucrat and a bureaucrat to treat well a General and a General with Officers and Officers with JCOs and the JCOs with Jawans ???????
…..If I am not mistaken…….or ……if you don’t get anger …. Are you Kidding….? We were taking about batman and its solution……. And now a threw an unexpected uranium bomb… as a permanent solution to such problems…….
This thambi is incapable to understand…………with least IQ…..
Plz do not defame a great army for silly reasons that one officer has done this… one jawan has done this… you all are very concerned about jawans looking-after their officer who is leading them in battle taking care of their safety (not his) and looking-after their welfare. The reality is `a sahayak is the happiest man among soldiers’ in a unit. He has very limited work load and gets sufficient time to look-after his own needs. I never heard that a personnel committed suicide due to the fact that he was employed as a sahayak. A sahayak is the best friend of an officer. The relation among them is never as you discussed. Even in armies of socialist countries there were/are commanders and followers. There cant be only commanders or only followers. If somebody is not there to help a commander in his personal works, he cant devote 1/4th of his time for official duties. How many ministers, bureaucrats, civil and police officers are you seeing in markets doing their shopping and washing their toilets and clothes ? Why dont you have pity on sweepers and dhobies in civil? Why are you leaving your job on them? Are they not human beings? One must be happy with his job. When he loses sincerity and interest in his job he starts abusing his seniors under whom they are working, does nothing and wastes his time.
well said Mr. Unni
Dear Mr Unni,
Welcome to this blog and thanks for your views.
You alleged me that I had defamed the great army…… Not at all…. If you consider this my bit of view, is defaming army you need to reconsider your allegation…. Now a days the so called element of patriotism has gone with the wind….This e-generation will never stick on to this…. Just log in any net search machine like google to yahoo and all dailies blogs…… and just type like scams of Indian army , batman of IA , Rape of IA, Espionage of IA, Sexual harassment of IA, Court martial of IA ,, you will get hundreds of news reports from their Archives.
I think I may have not defamed Indian Army in such an extent , as the above topics might have created the image of army in the on going e-society.
Do not think me as a pessimist of I army. I see other topics like Feats of army, Well fought war of IA, Role of IA in terrorism, which are worth of its praise than any other universal army.
The war of words in this blog is usage of well trained Jawan as a domestic maid in civil. Please I repeat here never I had objected the field duties concerned to the self or the officer is MENIAL. ……….just …. domestic work only………..
If at all…….. you won’t accept this ,create a separate wing like a ABC ( Army Batman Corps) to safe guard the spirit and sentiments of the men of ABC , who will think at last we are recruited for this ERRAND service only. If you force a Signal man or a Combating Sepoy, his sentiments and dream of serving for the nation service will be shattered into fragments, which won’t be united for a good shape….
You said Sahayak is the happiest man in the unit. I too accept @ 100%. For this I blame the officers who enjoy this freedom and convert a fighting soldier into a non-combatant…… And don’t you feel this is the great loss of this large democratic nation, which runs on taxes being paid by crores of hungry people hanging the poverty line……… Then fight with the government for ABC as you fight for other allowances etc……..
As you said real ” YES man” ( in fauji term Chamchaa) never suicide..? He will compromise everything for SELF. But for the man bundle of all sentiments ,” NO man” , will not compromise and as he is sering in unquestioning authority either he will finish his own life or land up in jail for the murder of the officer…… Certainly suicides and staff killing has many more reasons but obsession with batman ship can not be ruled out……………
You have compared with civil , where the practices are @ full swing. If you with your full CONSCIOUSNESS, accept this as an human Exploitation, YOU too want this to be carried out in your esteemed organisation, and expect the media not to defame it……???? I request you to read all my previous views and come with renewed attack…..
Before that ……..
Here is a Times Of India Editor’s blog : Editor Manas Gupta You may please log in TOI blog as ; Mocking Bird .
Please read it. If you read it for the first time , you may be counted as a member who read this a one after a CRORE such frequent news.
Join the Army, be a Batman
It’s one way to serve the country. Join the Indian Army as a soldier, train to be a lean, mean fighting machine, and spend half your time polishing shoes of officers, serving their wives tea or taking their dogs for walks. And they call you a Batman.
Unfortunately, you aren’t the caped crusader from Gotham City with a million gadgets and a fancy car…unless your uniform includes a cape while watering the colonel sahab’s plants.
It may have been a colonial hangover in the beginning, but it’s something the Army has steadfastly refused to do away with. The parliamentary standing committee hit the nail on the head when it said “the committee hardly needs to stress that jawans are recruited for serving the nation and not to serve family members of officers in household work, which is humiliating.’’
Seriously? You mean soldiers actually have to learn to fire weapons and guard our borders. And all this while I thought they were being groomed for the hospitality industry.
Unfortunately, even our government wants these soldiers to continue working as officers’ ‘maids’. The centre has rejected the parliamentary committee’s recommendation that officers should make do without orderlies.
There’s no denying that our Army is professional and well-trained and prides itself on its war record. But fighting abilities somehow don’t seem to go with dish-washing talents. But with an employment crunch staring India in the face, perhaps institutions could come up with diplomas in sweeping, gardening, car-washing, dog-walking etc and the gentlemen holding these diplomas could get a direct entry as brave Batmen ready to show ‘courage under fire’. I guess the only fire some of them may face may be in the kitchen.
The army feels an officer gets a sahayak for the upkeep of his uniform, weapons and other equipment, as also act as his radio operator and ‘‘buddy’’ during combat. So, let me get this straight. An Army officer, who undergoes such rigorous training and is responsible for a large body of men under his command, can’t even take care of his own uniform? He needs his ‘sahayak’ to polish his shoes and iron his clothes? Anyway, why would your ‘radio operator’ be with you 24×7 dusting your drawing room or getting ‘baba’ from school. Maybe he’ll radio from school to inform ‘sahab’ that his son has reached school.
I don’t want to deride the courageous officers of the Indian Army. We all know how bravely many of them fought on the borders. But that doesn’t mean his perks should include treating a fellow soldier as a personal servant. All Army formations have been told to ensure sahayaks are not employed for ‘‘menial household work’’ since as combatant soldiers they should not be used for anything which adversely impacts their dignity and self-respect. Question is who’s following this new rule?
In the late 90s, I was staying in Army Cantonment, Jaipur. The Army Chief came on a visit and in his speech advised the officers to avoid treating soldiers as orderlies and misusing Army rules and benefits. At that very time, barely a km from the venue, three tents had been set up outside a ‘separated family accommodation’. In these tents were staying 4 soldiers of a particular regiment sent from J&K by the commanding officer of their unit to look after his family in Jaipur. What medals would they have taken home?
Dear Mr.Thomas,
I greatly appreciate your reproduction of the views of Mr.Manas Gupta,Editor TOI as expressed in his blog. He has brought to bear on the conscience of every Indian the weight of the depressed soul the unfortunate Jawan carries when deployed in the guise of an orderly, on house-hold jobs that is the responsibility of the memsahib and the maid servant. In most of the senior officrs’ quarters it is the responsibilty of the orderly to feed the pouchy man and put him to bed and clean up the mess the officer leaves, after a heavy booze.Since the blog by the learned author contains exhaustive comments on the conduct of the army treating its jawans, it require no further elucidation for any one who is possessed of normal intelligence. If under various other subterfuges, if the officers continue to exploit the bonded system , then it can only be construed as an extension of an anarchic practice of the feudal era and the height of arrogance that does not gel with the citizenship of a soverign democratic republic. I am sure that the final resort will be a PIL in the supreme court as the individual freedom and personal dignity is grossly compromised by the direct transgression of fundamental rights as enshrined in the constitution. It is not sanctioned by art.33 of the constitution which abridges only the political activity and rights of association of members of the armed forces. That day is not far-off and the strictures will be far severe when the Hon’ble judges come down heavily on the reprehensible conduct of the likes of colonial masters !
Dear Krishnan Bala,
Let me thank you for your appreciation.
I have read your personal blog in Suleka.
You proposed PIL in Supreme court………May be Supreme Court is eagerly awaiting its launch form the public . ……… That too against of government and colonial masters………… Fix the date…..as you said……. That day is not far-off … You mean delhi bahooot nahi hai……
As you said……. That day is not far-off . Delhi is Not far off.
I mean it in Hindi “Delhi bahoot dooooooor Nahi hai “
Dear Mr. Deepu,
I am yet to receive about your permanent solution ” WAR “, to put full stop for all the ills of our Banana government.
In your previous discussions, you have mentioned that one of the main vital factors for SHORTAGE OF OFFICERS is lacking of OFFICER LIKE QUALITIES (OLQs) in the present unemployed youth.
The most unknown mystery to me is the OFFICER LIKE QUALITIES and the methods being adopted by Service Selection Board (SSB) to filter such Gentlemen. I am the most confused man regarding these two issues. If SSB methods are good and full proof ( Sorry, I don’t mean “” fool proof ” ), the Gentleman characters of its so called selected candidates, …… ‘ the serving and non serving OFFICER SAHIBJIs in all three wings of defence service in all Ranks are ambiguous, triplesome & troublesome. Why I am saying this ” is not because of jealousy of such characters ”. But because it does miraculous wonders in army.. They are the mothers ( not fathers ) of all scams. One can not imagine that a scam …..in this MENIAL too……. for receiving gallantry awards one Colonel had prefixed the gallantry as KETCHUP colonel. No one on earth has ever thought tomato sauce, can ALSO be used as BLOOD for fake encounters……. Later on in this case, a ring of talented high rank officers were found to be inter linked………..
Let me present some of the OFFICER LIKE QUALITIES (O L Qs ) as under.
** Antony orders probe into Army rations scam
** Faked valour
PRAVEEN SWAMI
Officers on the Siachen glacier are caught inflating enemy kills to win honours and promotions.
** Now, poultry scam rocks Army
With several senior officers in the dock, the Army has been jolted by poultry scam.
** Recruitment scam hits Army
Rajan Mahan, Sunday July 19, 2009, Ajmer
**Raids on Major-General unearth crores
The CBI conducted searches against a serving Major-General at 12 places across five cities and detected disproportionate assets worth over Rs 50 crore.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
** Capt Poonam charged on 20 counts
Anand Bodh, TNN 10 September 2008, 04:12am IST
CHANDIGARH: The wheel seems to have come full circle for Capt Poonam Kaur, who had earlier accused three of her senior male officers, including her commanding officer Col R K Sharma, of physical and mental harassment, but was on Tuesday slapped with 20 charges instead. The move came after the commanding officer of 5 Armoured Regiment at Patiala completed proceedings against her and ordered the summary of evidence recording.
** ‘Probe on to unravel spying network in Army’
Defence Minister Mukherjee said that investigations were on to unravel the full ramifications of spying in the forces.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
*** Timesofindia.com: Major General shown the door in Tehelka case
****Is this officer also a gentleman?
It’s the first of its kind. In an army open trial, commanding officer of Gorkha Battalion Col K D Singh admitted that Siachen encounters last year were ‘fake’. This recording summary of evidence is being done before start of court martial proceedings.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
****’Booze’ Brigadier to get marching orders from Army
NEW DELHI: The Army has decided to sack and imprison the brigadier who allegedly sold huge quantities of military quota liquor in the civilian market. A colonel and a major are also in the net in the same case.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
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Army doc fakes suicide, elopes with senior’s wife
Military Intelligence personnel arrested the doctor in Sangli, Maharashtra where he was working under his proper name in a hospital. He was later court-martialled.
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Army orders probe into Purohit’s `activities’
The army has ordered a three-member panel to conduct a departmental inquiry into the “activities” of Lt Col Prasad Purohit.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
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2 Major-Generals face corruption charges
In yet indicator of the declining standards of probity and discipline in the armed forces, two Major-Generals from the Army Ordnance Corps are now in the dock for their alleged acts of commission and omission.
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Major dismissed for molesting J&K girl, mother
SRINAGAR: Notwithstanding the DNA report absolving Rashtriya Rifles officer Major Rehman Hussian of rape charges, a court martial held at Uri on Monday recommended his dismissal for molesting a girl and her mother at Handwara in Kupwara district of J&K.
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Classified info leak: Colonel held guilty
The eruption of espionage cases in the armed forces has now claimed an officer with a court martial.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
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Army officer under scanner over misconduct
After a series of meat, cereal, liquor and fuel scandals, another senior army officer is now in the dock for alleged financial misappropriation and misconduct with a woman.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
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‘Booze general’ gets three-year RI
A court martial has found the Major-General guilty of ‘illegal activities pertaining to misuse of funds and canteen stores’.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
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Army hit by fuel scam
After meat, dal and liquor scandals, the Army seems to be grappling with fuel scams these days.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
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Defence officer discloses ‘sensitive info’ to fake caller
Believe it or not, a person apparently managed to extract some ‘sensitive information’ from a senior Indian Air Force officer over the telephone by posing as a joint secretary in the defence ministry.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
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Navy war room leak: Chief’s kin chargesheeted
Ravi Shankaran, a kin of Navy Chief Admiral Arun Prakash, and 4 ex-defence officials have been chargesheeted.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
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Scams have dented Army image: Kapoor
In the backdrop of several scams coming to the fore in the Army, General Deepak Kapoor stressed that the 1.13-million force will brook no corruption among its ranks.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
Sorry to present these .
My effort is not to bring down your invaluable trust with army services. But we are talking about Officer Like Qualities. Do You mean these qualities, which are displayed to the citizens of this country by the the so called GENTLEMEN???????
May be, at the time of facing they faked as Gentleman fooling the SSB, and later on during the service the really faked Ketchup drama.
If their characters can not be guaranteed in long course of time, my doubts with SSB methods are @ 100% correct.
If it produces such officers to this nation, I would question its existence?
Can I expect any response from your side……………..?
Mr thomas,
you don’t ‘ve any rights to comment like this…..that’s because people like u want to sit in the A/C room(to generate ideas) and doesnt’ want to send their so called honest and nation loving sons (now daughters too) to the army….
I stand by my statement even now, “The army is what the nation is, army is what the society is, army is what the culture of the nation is…….i’m saying this b’coz, army is drawn out of the society and nation…..if these selected men who r entrused with the responsibility of safeguarding the nation are becoming corrupt, then the fault lies with the society…..if the seed is faulty, u can’t expect a healthy plant / tree….
as far as the selection process is concerned, it is up to your civilian democratic govt to decide keeping in view the constitutional rights of an ordinary citizen, whether to continue the same process or change it in favour of some better method….
It is my humble request, could u pls tell me just one honest organisation (if any) of the country?? ……all these corruptions u’ve mentioned ‘ve taken place wherever, there’s contact with the civilian suppliers / contractors….the civil society is after all corrupt to the core, starting to the railway TTE, electricity dept lineman, postman, clerks in all govt offices, police, revenue officials, MLAs / MPs, now even chief ministers etc all r corrupt……
The corruptions ‘ve started coming to light during the recent years….the army tried to kept itself insulated from the ills of the civil society for the past 60yrs……but how long ‘ll it be possible, I think it is not possible for a healthy apple to remain healthy in a heap of the rotten ones……
Hi deepu, don’t be so senty yaar. Thomas and Bala know that no army officer would like to be in uniform if the society of Thomas and Bala is self sufficient and does n’t require an army. Then army officers will be the happiest lot to live a civilian life in such a peaceful society. People find heroism and OLQ in army officers only when there is a fear in their mind that enemy is about to show off their ‘OLQ’ (as defined by our friend) towards their mothers and sisters. Yes, if the govt can afford/digest to have safaiwala to clean toilets, dhobi to wash clothes, barber to cut & shave, cook to prepare food, mason to construct a wall, masalchi to wash plates etc (All combatants and humanbeings) in army they can afford to have one more trade which you may call ‘batman’ or ‘orderly’ to help officers to keep their dignity as their counterparts in civil are also not expected to perform such unavoidable and crucial jobs infront of their juniors. (contd….)
Now plz don’t tell me that they are meant to look-after only jawans and not officers. And that safaiwala will clean jawans’ toilet only and not officers’. If you are still not happy, charge for an orderly’s service from the pay of an officer, no matter babus are paid servant allowance to keep one of his choice, besides the exclusive service of the class IV employees available in their offices. If a safaiwala or dhobi with very little exposure to training is expected to fight when contingency arises in field areas being enrolled as combatant, a full time combatant jawan with limited exposure as an orderly will not prove a national wastage in fighting. Bala does n’t know his “Hon’ble Judges†who is going to come down heavily on the “reprehensible conduct of the likes of colonial masters†on his PIL also enjoy certain constitutional provisions. To know this read “Now Public Information Officer at Delhi High Court in response to an RTI petition has revealed that not only judges, their spouses, dependent children and parents are entitled to enjoy privileged protocol courtesies at airports, railway-stations, hospitals and other government-departments, even other relations including in-laws, adult children and other relations other than blood-relation of judges are entitled for such facilities. Every protocol and facilities awarded to the privileged ones costs public-exchequers†(Courtesy – http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/26388-right-information-response-protocol-judges-families.html). Don’t forget that in order to maintain these protocol courtesies somebody has to be there at such places to clean/wash/carry luggage etc for them.
Besides the above, there are number of cases where judges were involved in corruption in the shade of blanket judicial immunity. Such cases will be larger in number and more serious in gravity if we compare it with the atrocities done by army officers, as enumerated by Thomas. Now can they still come down heavily on very limited privileges enjoyed by officers, morally, Mr Bala ?
Bala does n’t know his “Hon’ble Judges†who is going to come down heavily on the “reprehensible conduct of the likes of colonial masters†on his PIL also enjoy certain constitutional provisions. To know this read “Now Public Information Officer at Delhi High Court in response to an RTI petition has revealed that not only judges, their spouses, dependent children and parents are entitled to enjoy privileged protocol courtesies at airports, railway-stations, hospitals and other government-departments, even other relations including in-laws, adult children and other relations other than blood-relation of judges are entitled for such facilities. Every protocol and facilities awarded to the privileged ones costs public-exchequers†(Courtesy – http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/26388-right-information-response-protocol-judges-families.html). Don’t forget that in order to maintain these protocol courtesies somebody has to be there at such places to clean/wash/carry luggage etc for them.
Besides the above, there are number of cases where judges were involved in corruption in the shade of blanket judicial immunity. Such cases will be larger in number and more serious in gravity if we compare it with the atrocities done by army officers, as enumerated by Thomas. Now can they still come down heavily on very limited privileges enjoyed by officers, morally, Mr Bala ?
Dear Mr.Unni,
Hailing from a most literate state and having been made aware of the personal dignity early in life, it is incumbent upon you to answer clearly whether the practice of deploying jawans recruited in to the army for combat duties for house hold personal work is repugnent to the individual’s personal esteem and amounts to gross exploitation or not ? Simply obfuscating the issue with extension of procol to VIP’s entourage or corruption in high places does not carry you any where in a serious discussion where constitutional infringement is involved and tantamount to a pick-pocket when apprehended red-handed pointing to the 1000 crore fodder scam of Lallu Prasad and hence whittling down the seriousness of the offence committed by him. Do not bring in the services rendered by safaiwalas, barber and the cook who are enrolled specifically for the job appropriate to their professional calling in appropriate places as determined in their terms of service. While no other country has such a system in place, there is no reason the Indian Army should plead for the contiuance of a service rendered by the bare-footed native sepoy of the Robert Clive’s regiment in the free India of to-day.The issue is crystal clear and we should not muddy the water and lose track.By all means the officer is entittled to personal help and services given the responsibility he holds, but that does not have to be a jawan who dons the uniform and is enrolled as a combatant. The very urge to demand free personal service at what ever cost to another individual should not tinge the perspective of the issue under discussion.
Dear Mr Bala, I did not make clear my stand on the issue in hand as I could find only maligned and detrimental comments about officers floating over the blog. I was just trying to invite your attention to other areas where similar thing is happening at a larger scale but not at all viewed as a crime as you are of the view in the batman issue. Let me assure you, I will be the last man to support employment of soldiers for household works. I believe that ill treatment of any kind towards anybody is a crime. Employing a soldier for an officer’s personal work such as preparing uniform and other genuine helps without causing harm to the esteem of a soldier is not constitutional infringement, rather it is a privilege granted to him by way of army orders passed by the Central Govt. He is suppose to get this service even when residing with his family. Now the point is whether such a task is to be performed by a soldier or not. In the manpower authorization sanctioned by the cabinet, administrative staff to look-after such duties have also been taken into account. In such vacancies general duty soldiers are authorized/posted in the absence of a separate trade as orderlies (now camp followers) in police. The root cause of the issue which leads your worries is authorizing such a facility to officers and providing general duty soldiers to do it (which was not done at the demand of officers). Withdrawing a facility since others are not getting it, is not the way to solve an issue. With safaiwalas and dhobis I just wanted to convey you that in army everyone is expected to perform multiple tasks (as bullets never ask trade). That is why they are combatants besides their own trade. Don’t be silly to think that the entire unit area including acres of training areas are cleaned and grass cut by trademen while other soldiers are looking on or in bed. Cituation demands that most of such jobs they also have to do. If you want to really shield their esteem you will have to fill half the battalion strength with trademen so that the entire class IV job is done them and the jawans recruited in to the army for combat duties do only training. In such a scenario they can also be provided with a buddy trademan to dig a trench for them in forward areas. Officers will bring their ayas and bais from home to help them, as you suggested, in an environment like J&K or North East. With all these modernization and righteous measures, atleast you and Mr Thomas will be sanguine that Indian Army will reach further heights.
Dear Mr. Unni,
The writers whoever floated in this portal, the so called maligned and detrimental comments on officers, are just left with no other option except feeling ”sorry”. Whoever writes here must be concerned / connected with uniform service either directly or indirectly. No writer blames any particular section without any reason. Even the commentator may have belonged to the same section. No intention is there in commenting such. No online pay and perks are provided to such commentators .
Instead of commenting the nature of one’s comments, one must look into truth and its establishment in write ups.
Whatever scams and news that I had shown above, ARE NOT true to its nature? These comments certainly will be maligned and detrimental to those, who does not position TRUTH in its place. Truth can not be hidden……, it prevails and can be seen beyond of pitch dark.
Defence installations are much efficient in keeping the media at distance. In the fake name of ” secret ” and “Confidential ” , most of the ills are perpetrated behind the curtains and original secret and confidential matters are out in the media. This is the age of Information Technology. In those days people didn’t know approximate strength of king’s wives, whether in platoon size, or Unit size or Brigade size or Div size or the entire corps. ….. They didn’t even bother about…… In this age the US former president Mr. Clinton was not spared by the media and by his bad well wishers for illicit matter with his house maid, Miss. Monica Lewensky . Here Mr Clinton had to bow to truth on his kneel before the citizens. So truth leaves NONE.
Those so called allegations I had shown are based on truth only…. at least by least percentage….. There is Egg scam in army. ……If the foul of its rotten doesn’t come out of highly fenced military installations to the civilians, it won’t be with print media. If one doest not accede to because of its odour, at last he has to compromise with the leakage of so called secret among the perpetrators on ” percentage of COMMISSIONED sharing among COMMISSIONED men . Why should we do away with truth? Let the truth be brought to the nation, which feeds and clothes the UNIFORM. Their hard earned taxes should not be used in scams like Daal, meat, uniform. coffin……scams…..
And such scams should not be compared with cilvil departments. It is like what… he does rape …. Why I can’t I ?………. We belong to the highest institution of the nation. We are proud of its discipline with the world armies. As Mr Deepu said, as the civilian contractors are corrupt, our Gentlemen toooooo fall prey to them. If their Gentleness is compromised with civil rogues, then please do not tell these men as Gentlemen….
When farting of a President in a meeting takes front page of the national daily, will the scams be spared…??
We are responsible for our own act…… No repentance please…………………
Dear Thomas,
I admire the way you have countered the substantive points rather than seek to obfuscate and take shelter under mal function of other components in the machinery. Subterfuges can not lead to any successful understanding of a problem as otherwise every corrupt person can quote a Madhu Koda and get away regardless of seriousness of his own depredations. Given the officer who is charged with a higher responsibility requires certain basic comforts and personal service commensurate with his dignity of life, let us not sacrifice the esteem of the personnel below officer rank and make them a slave in our own democracy. If the horizon of ones knowledge of the armed forces opens -up and encompasses the practice that is obtaining in other countries, the sheer legitimacy of the argument for continuance of the embedded system will dis-appear !
well said Mr Bala and Mr Thomas…. no doubt army has got certain ills and evils as well…..but as long as people like you sit on the other side of the fence and the so called honest & well educated people hailing from the so called most literate states like you don’t join or send their sons to the army…..you’ll ‘ve to bear with what ever quality of material is available in the society for joining army as officers….!!
beggers can’t be choosers…..u send leftover of the best in the society to the army(as the best of the most literate states go to west) and expect it to function and remain a best organisation in the world…..please think and tell me honestly, is it possible ?? No it isn’t possible….even this leftover is not able to meet the full requirement of the army……..if u attract better, honest, educated, intelligent, sincere and hardworking people with good leadership and management skills to join the army…..the army will transform into a small, efficient and mean fighting machine….
.the army tried to kept itself insulated from the ills of the civil society for the past 60yrs but how long ‘ll it be possible, I think it is not possible for a healthy apple to remain healthy in a heap of the rotten ones
My dear Mr. ” Eating at Home “, ( Eat at ” Dhaba ” too , you will encounter different delicacy )
As far as the so called insulation of army is concerned for 60 years, Army ,” the HEALTHY Apple ” has been protecting from civil interference like print media well , and now it turned into ” Rotten Apple ” . You mean it directly that due to direct contact or CONTRACT with the civil, the army’s the rottenness, has been brought in lime light.
You may accept this or not, that the best advantage of the insulation, where Right of Press or Right To Information (RTI) has NO place to peep , is provision of RAM RAJ ( freedom to do one’ will) to the well insulated inmates.
Let me explain with you few example, Freedom of Press only revealed us that ”’ fallana matter ”” had been between Clinton and Monica. In your term Clinton was a healthy apple to his wife. But Mrs Clinton later on had realized him as “”Rotten apple ”’ by the help of press freedom or RTI , which is the highest boon of present humanity. Why the so called insulated institutes now-a-days turned into “Unexpected” and STINK ing more. ( because of STING ing operations.) Take Tehalka……….sting operation…….. sach much tehalka macha diya……….. Tehalka brought major political havocs…….. shown sleazy and rotten happening in olive green uniform , as we frequently use the terms ” ills and evils ” of our insulated system.
So at last what we realize the INSULATION protects “ills and evils” too.
Few months before Scam of Fuel ( Petrol) was unearthed by Punjab Police in Ambala.——————————–
Army hit by fuel scam
After meat, dal and liquor scandals, the Army seems to be grappling with fuel scams these days.
Log on to : http://www.timesofindia.com
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A coveted rank holder Brigadier , Colonel , Major sahebaan and a Minor Nb Subedar were found master Minds and minor Mentals . What they did…. you know….. instead of petrol…. it was found mere H 2 O , ……. entire tank was sold with consent and knowledge of Natural Gas Authority’s higher officer…..
Here I am in doubt whether the civilian became rotten after contact with uniform men or the latter become infectious after having illicit relationship with the former…….
This episode of high drama has been on its rocket speed since 2005. …. Imagine how much gallons of petrol was vaporised into hopeless paaaani.
This episode came to our knowledge as the so called insulation was ruptured by the right of freedom. People are the rulers of this nation. Let them be begggars but they are Kings. No guard can not cheat his King in the pretext of king’s security or under the name of insulation or by comparision with healthy apple to rotton one. If one is pariotic and truly loves one’s motherland, one should not invite insulation, if it doesn’t breach its security measures.
Our main talk should be on “SUICIDES of Jawan”….. , why this subject is distracted….due to emerging of new topics like …… SHORTAGE OF OFFICERS … and ….. lack of OFFICER LIKE QUALITIES ….And it all bifurcated tributaries of main Holy Ganga mataji which urgently demands cleaning from Pollution … Here those scam culprits in high level…… or low level…….. will always support that a combatant soldier is his batman. They might have engaged soldiers in platoon size in their office address / residential address / parent’s residence address ( to show how great their ward has come up) and at in-laws house address ( to exhibit how lucky they are to have him as son-in-law (Daamaad) .
Please read this…. the editor of Times of India in his own writing ……………………
In the late 90s, I was staying in Army Cantonment, Jaipur. The Army Chief came on a visit and in his speech advised the officers to avoid treating soldiers as orderlies and misusing Army rules and benefits. At that very time, barely a km from the venue, three tents had been set up outside a ’separated family accommodation’. In these tents were staying 4 soldiers of a particular regiment sent from J&K by the commanding officer of their unit to look after his family in Jaipur. What medals would they have taken home? …………………
Such colonial masters in scams never ever respect the sentiments of their soldier, treating him inhumane along with their hectic schedule of scams agenda because of their worst traits.
Sorry if the reader is hurt…….. this comes from the heart of unknown citizen……….who bleeds being taxed………………………
Dear Mr Bala and Thomas,
Why no response to my comment………..” no doubt army has got certain ills and evils as well…..but as long as people like you sit on the other side of the fence and the so called honest & well educated people hailing from the so called most literate states like you don’t join or send their sons to the army…..you’ll ‘ve to bear with what ever quality of material is available in the society for joining army as officers….!!
beggers can’t be choosers…..u send leftover of the best in the society to the army(as the best of the most literate states go to west) and expect it to function and remain a best organisation in the world…..please think and tell me honestly, is it possible ?? No it isn’t possible….even this leftover is not able to meet the full requirement of the army……..if u attract better, honest, educated, intelligent, sincere and hardworking people with good leadership and management skills to join the army…..the army will transform into a small, efficient and mean fighting machine….”
well said, Mr Thomas, the issue here is Suicides in Army….and as per you these poor jawans r committing suicides because they r employed as batmen by officers…..tell me then why r officers committing suicides ? are they too being employed as batmen somewhere??
if officers are inefficient rogues who r corrupt and curel…… u people r to be blamed…..u just can’t keep watching the show from outside and blame officers alone for all the ills in the army!! first improve the quality and quantity (also) of talent (people) joining army…..you’ll see improvement in army’s functioning….
now as you said… “In the late 90s, I was staying in Army Cantonment, Jaipur. The Army Chief came on a visit and in his speech advised the officers to avoid treating soldiers as orderlies and misusing Army rules and benefits. At that very time, barely a km from the venue, three tents had been set up outside a ’separated family accommodation’. In these tents were staying 4 soldiers of a particular regiment sent from J&K by the commanding officer of their unit to look after his family in Jaipur. What medals would they have taken home?…
“I HOPE MR THOMAS, YOU WERE NOT STAYING IN ONE OF THOSE THREE TENTS IN JAIPUR IN LATE 90s WHEN U WERE STAYING IN ARMY CANTT JAIPUR !!”……i’m yet to see a situation where 4 soldiers can stay in 3 tents…..even officers don’t get a dedicated tent for themselves…..it shows ur hollow knowledge….
strange….no comments for the past over 10 days !! where ‘ve the defenders of the humanity in the army gone ??
has this blog been closed….?? anybody there ??
Sir,
I am join of Army but my ege today 25 year please sagessation me in army join
i am indian citizen.
Thanks
Mr. Deepu,
Now the hung website seems to motivate us to continue the healthy talk on
national issue. Your letter on 9th Dec, last year still unanswered. Unexpectedly
When this opened without any red warning I am typing this without any thought
in mind. Let us continue if the site gives us green signal ……..Thanks Mr. Deepu
and Mr. Bala.
Thomas
Mr. Deepu,
It is my pleasure for being reconnected with such intellectual and elite group for discussing on the much controversial topic. The temper in yesteryear seems to have been lost now as the website went for hibernation showing WARNING for log in. At last our freedom of speech has been preserved. Thanks to the authority of the website Avalon5.com.
When my fingers doing tango on the key board, I feel to leave the topic for ever with fruitless effort on grinding of same flour. And fingering the beehive is threat to me now. You are more defensive in your thoughts in defending Defence and prove dangerous than honey bee in stinging. Yet being a Human Bean, I should also prove that I not less patriotic than you.
You said, I am sitting on the other side of fence. Let your fence be the Line Of Control. I am perfectly the proud son of Bharat mata. If one is exposing the flaws of the country, that does not mean one is treacherous and anti national. Live Tv Telecasts, where any type of security concerned subject is deeply analysed among hundreds of people free and fair. Will we call all those as Anti nationals?
You treat and set the Country’s defence system as highly Confidential hence should not be discussed in public. And more of hence, all kinds scams can be carried out under a large opaque shroud. When we were in Interval period of discussion, that time Five Generals were busy in SUKNA. They were trading a considerable part of my mother India. If I highlight this topic, You will bounce on me with your holy words and comment me that I am the person who never send my ward to the defence service. And further you will comment the five Generals are the representatives of the corrupted society and Gooooooooooooood apples turned rotten with the bad ones in the basket. Now I at last started to think that I should send my son or daughter at least in a sepoy rank so as to stop all such non sense.
General is a top level rank structure in army. A crime ( scam ) against of Mother India, is committed by connivance of half dozen top top ranks, then there won’t be any fatal factor than this for downing the head @ 180 degree downwards in the height of SHAME. A General must have earned enough reputation and enough money during his Uniform service. Still then also l if he does improvement in status by staging scams then nothing worse than this on earth. At least 0.1% of element of patriotism towards the much reputed Defence Service.
You asked me to trace out reasons for the suicides of Army Officers. And asked me ‘Are they also engaged as batman? I strongly predict my dear brother that the officers who suicided must have met more dangerous environments than a Batman experienced. Because an officer is More intelligent than a batman. He knows his life is important to him , if NOT to his country. Although his IQ is high, yet he suicides. Then this must be greatest and gravest disaster and this topic should be primarily preferred than the suicide of Jawan.
In the last point you pointed out that I was NOT one among the tent mates. That means the news told by the Editor of Times of India is sheer baseless and absurd. If you don’t believe in More believe in Less. If a girl reports that she is gang raped, will we insist her to now the numbers of Criminals only instead of knowing intensity of her plea. Please first accept that Rape is occurred.
Have not you ever seen or heard that the serving or retired top ranks holding few jawans in a tent beside of their residence, let it be a sleepy hamlet. There were and strongly hope still such fake status quo will be maintained by our peers in services. Those time they exploited. Now not only eyes of Cameras but also Cellphones are opened widely and wildly.
Anticipating your anti missiles………
Thomas
Dear Mr. Thomas,
Good to see ur comments after so many months….
u must ‘ve seen the news reports that the recommendations of the parliamentary committee on defence have been placed before the government and they re likely to be accepted….
so the problem of sahayaks / batmen is solved now….
as for the sukna generals, i don’t know the facts except the news reports….so i can’t comment….but if something is wrong, it is wrong……no one can defend it or try to correct it…everyone should condemn it…..
as for the gang rape of the girl……army is not raping the country…. the people, the bureaucrats, the politicians are raping the country…..by not giving the right conditions for people to join the forces and remove the shortage of men and officers and the equipment…..they are raping the forces too…..
there’s no end to this discussion, there are too many flaws in the country in this system….if all of us try to remove these ills within our small circle of influence, our house, our street, out colony, our locality……eventually we will b able to clean our cities, states and ultimately the country and its various organisations…..
till then lets fight…..against the social evils and ills…..
deepu
this is big problem……….. mt think is we all are meet than solve this problem easily……………………….we hav target whwt think for soldier about in their army… how can solve in their problem…. taking comment for all soldiers in indian army an most probly meet the comment taking the acition…..
this problem is in all military and para military forces , first stop giving liquor to them, they have no limitations to having liquor, the officers duty in Indian forces is only full time bull sheet with jawans in day and till mid night they consuming liquor ,thy dont allow the jawans to sleep and phone call to home also, if a jawan is say some thing against a officer , all officer is became one union and start screwing his life, giving punishment frequently ,waiting to notice small-small guiltily,stopping the leave, dont allow them to go out, abuses them , mentally and physically irritating,like a hard raging , most problem with the new coming boys coming in service as officers, they think they r kings
solution in my opinion
1abolish army order by parliament or sup ream court
2. abolish the misguiding training to new coming officers ,
3. include their training , behavior with the person having more age , teach them the way of give respect and take respect.
4.dont think the jawan r slaves , This not a British India,friendly behavior is very important
5 abolish the new rule writing A C R of jawans by officers, for promotion of jawans , they they more cmpelling to became slaves, for promotion they consider 25% mark only from exams rest 75% by ACR only
6 The qualifications of officer r not sufficient, IAS ,IPS officers required for this
7Allow CBI and Centrl vigilance And politicians,news editors to take surprise check to their offices at any time
8The using liquor any military person should be prohibited, this should be check by authorized civil organisations
9.
10 and followes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
he main reasons are hide by the officers. Indian army soldiers are misused by indian army officer. They are not have a any dignity. They are treated as a slave. Only their welfare are in papers only. Another thing is very low pay scale it is not meet with the civil living condition. Every thing cost goes very high but comparatively the scale is very less.
They are not know their entitilement of their structure. Directly or indirectly 25% of soldiers of indian army are engaged for officers requirement fulfiling.
British ruling is closed but in army it is maintained very well.
Prasant and Sunil
You have rightly said…
Hope our army would have its dawn. Soldiers will be no longer Slaves to top brass. A drastic change may happen. All Gods of this universe can even impatient of this human exploitation.
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